From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sami Sihvonen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: Re: configure script Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:57:01 +0300 Organization: Janiika Networks Corporation Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <61D0BADD.74BBFB3A.B8B383E9@netscape.net> <200206081915.g58JFT128804@aztec.santafe.edu> <538dgukrilgffka0tdkddf7hdph4i9b5va@4ax.com> <200206122347.g5CNlNn05901@aztec.santafe.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1024325480 4040 127.0.0.1 (17 Jun 2002 14:51:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:51:20 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17Jxqh-000133-00 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:51:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 17Jxqi-0000r2-00; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:51:21 -0400 Original-Received: from chx400.switch.ch ([130.59.10.2]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 17JxpT-0000l2-00 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:50:04 -0400 Original-Received: from pete.fi.eu.org ([213.28.99.109]) by chx400.switch.ch with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17JxpO-0000ro-00 for gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:49:59 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 34208 invoked by uid 8); 17 Jun 2002 14:49:54 -0000 Original-To: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org Original-Path: not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug Original-Lines: 96 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.137.154.222 Original-X-Trace: pete.fi.eu.org 1024325394 34198 194.137.154.222 (17 Jun 2002 14:49:54 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@pete.fi.eu.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:49:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/16.553 Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:2091 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bugs:2091 In article <200206122347.g5CNlNn05901@aztec.santafe.edu>, rms@gnu.org (Richard Stallman) wrote: > Whether GNU had any effect on the development of Linux does not > seem to be a major issue. The truth be told here for everybody: Free Software Foundation has funded the rewriting of GNU/Linux extensions to the GNU C library so it can be used out-of-the-box with GNU/Linux. And also Free Software Foundation has funded development of popular GNU/Linux distribution, Debian GNU/Linux. > As for the operating system in which Linux became popular and is > mainly used, to say that we "had a major influence on it" is a gross > understatement. It was never right to call this operating system > "Linux", and we ask people not to do that. Agreed, GNU Project is so important part of GNU/Linux that it just can't be ignored. Linux kernel is just another platform to run GNU tools, just like any commercial Unix(tm) or even Microsoft Windows. The difference here is that GNU/Linux uses so much GNU tools, it can't even boot without few dozen of GNU tools. It is just wrong to ignore GNU Project when talking about GNU/Linux systems. > I call the system "GNU/Linux" specifically to give a share of the > credit for the system to Linus Torvalds. Agreed, Linux kernel is under 3% source code of GNU/Linux systems. Some GNU/Linux distributions contain 28% of software from GNU Project, this has been counted by distribution vendor. And I guess distributions with a lot of CD's have even higher numbers. In article , David.Kastrup@t-online.de (David Kastrup) wrote: > Linus Torvalds has always acknowledged the major influence > GNU has had on Linux development. He did not choose the GPL for > Linux accidentally. Linux kernel does not wan't to be official kernel for GNU Operating System. This is a decision made by Linus Torvalds. No friendly operating towards GNU Project or Free Software Foundation. GNU/Linux uses a lot of efforts from GNU Project but it does not give anything back to it. FSF has even funded development of GNU/Linux,but got nothing back for it. > Nobody would deny that all available Linux systems _are_ GNU systems. Everybody who ignores GNU Project contribution to GNU/Linux systems keep saying that there are distributions that don't you any GNU Project material. Yes, it is possible to run Linux kernel without any GNU Project software. But those that I have seen or heard about are few floppies distributions that can be used only to do few things. Nothing like real OS, like GNU/Linux distributions. If you keep saying "Dell sells pre-installed Linux systems" or "IBM does consulting for Linux systems", guess what kind of Linux systems they are? Anwser: They are all those distributions with huge amount of GNU Project software. > But that is no reason to adulterate the name. It is the one > putting together a system that gets to name it. A painting is > named by painter, not by the paint manufacturer. Check out www.gnu.org for good comments from RMS about this. Argue them, if you can. I don't think it is possible. > That RMS quite shamelessly tries to hijack _all_ credit he can think > of and feels comfortable with ignoring everybody else's contribution > to Free systems as long as he gets his in, is quite hypocritical. RMS shamelessly hijacking credit? What a joke... When I was talking about this same issue in finnish-language GNU/Linux newsgroup (sfnet.atk.linux) one guy even said "RMS is boosting his own ego". RMS is a living legend in world of computers. Anybody who tries to say anything else must be having mental problems. Gods don't needing hijack any credit or boost their own egos. Give me a good laugh, try explaining how RMS is doing a bad work and how he is hurting computer industry? RMS might use all available means to make his dream code true, GNU Project and GNU Operating System. All of us benefit from this, any GPL source code helps us all. Since this is a Good Thing(tm), I can't blame RMS for attacking GNU/Linux naming the way he does. He has got a point and facts to back it up. -- Sami Sihvonen, Chief Executive Officer, Janiika Networks Corporation.