bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Eli Zaretskii]

To reproduce:

  emacs -Q
  M-x eww RET www.google.com RET
  Click on the "Sign in" link

The NSM shows a buffer with description of why it failed to verify the
certificate of accounts.google.com, and prompts in the minibuffer like
this:

  Continue connecting? (No, Session only, Always)

It expects me to press either N, S, or A, but that is not clear enough
from the prompt.

I suggest to change the prompt to something like this:

  Continue connecting? ([N]o, [S]ession only, [A]lways)

Alternatively, the first letter could be underlined (assuming we can
rely on every supported terminal to be able to display underlined
characters).



In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.77 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2014-12-13 on HOME-C4E4A596F7
Repository revision: 3c07d7f047ab27b44027c411eced863301fc6146
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/d/usr --enable-checking=yes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=-O0
 -g3''

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: ENU
  locale-coding-system: cp1255

Major mode: Help

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Contacting host: www.google.com:80
Contacting host: www.google.co.il:80
Contacting host: accounts.google.com:443
Type C-x 1 to delete the help window.
url-http: Could not create connection to accounts.google.com:443
Mark set [3 times]

Load-path shadows:
None found.

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bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Stefan Monnier]

Agreed.  Two more nitpicks:
- The cursor is not displayed next to the prompt, contrary to the usual
  behavior (e.g. of y-or-n-p).
- maybe this is a problem in my "popup frames galore" setup, but I'd
  prefer that the explanation window be displayed in the current frame
  when possible.


        Stefan

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> It expects me to press either N, S, or A, but that is not clear enough
> from the prompt.
>
> I suggest to change the prompt to something like this:
>
>   Continue connecting? ([N]o, [S]ession only, [A]lways)
>
> Alternatively, the first letter could be underlined (assuming we can
> rely on every supported terminal to be able to display underlined
> characters).

Yeah.  But shouldn't we have a general multiple-choice library function
for these (sort of) extended y-or-n-p functions?

While writing the NSM function, I was looking around for one, but the
only thing I found was `gnus-multiple-choice'.  :-)  So I had
implemented this before.  A call using that function here would be

(gnus-multiple-choice "Continue connecting?" '((?a "always")
                                               (?s "session only")
                                               (?n "no")))

Or something.  If the user types something else, you get a help buffer
and stuff.

Shall I make that into a general function (it needs some tweaking in the
prompting department)?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:43:37 -0500 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: 

SM> Agreed.  Two more nitpicks:
SM> - The cursor is not displayed next to the prompt, contrary to the usual
SM>   behavior (e.g. of y-or-n-p).
SM> - maybe this is a problem in my "popup frames galore" setup, but I'd
SM>   prefer that the explanation window be displayed in the current frame
SM>   when possible.

One more: if the query happens while starting Gnus, I end up with Gnus
on the left and the last connection info on the right in a 50/50
left-right split in the current frame.

Ted

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:12:21 +0100
> 
> Yeah.  But shouldn't we have a general multiple-choice library function
> for these (sort of) extended y-or-n-p functions?
> 
> While writing the NSM function, I was looking around for one, but the
> only thing I found was `gnus-multiple-choice'.  :-)  So I had
> implemented this before.  A call using that function here would be
> 
> (gnus-multiple-choice "Continue connecting?" '((?a "always")
>                                                (?s "session only")
>                                                (?n "no")))
> 
> Or something.  If the user types something else, you get a help buffer
> and stuff.
> 
> Shall I make that into a general function (it needs some tweaking in the
> prompting department)?

Sounds useful, thanks.  Bonus points for optionally popping a dialog
(via x-popup-dialog) when the command was invoked by a mouse.

Btw, if you do that, userlock.el cries for using this functionality,
and likewise hack-local-variables-confirm.

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Yeah.  But shouldn't we have a general multiple-choice library function
>> for these (sort of) extended y-or-n-p functions?

The closest is probably read-char-choice.


        Stefan

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>>> Yeah.  But shouldn't we have a general multiple-choice library function
>>> for these (sort of) extended y-or-n-p functions?
>
> The closest is probably read-char-choice.

It's kinda close, but it doesn't tell the user what the expansions to
the choices are, which I think is kinda useful.  Gnus has some
multiple-choice prompts that are longer than can be displayed in the
echo buffer nicely, and it would be nice if it auto-shortened the help
texts... 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
>> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:12:21 +0100
>> 
>> Yeah.  But shouldn't we have a general multiple-choice library function
>> for these (sort of) extended y-or-n-p functions?
>> 
>> While writing the NSM function, I was looking around for one, but the
>> only thing I found was `gnus-multiple-choice'.  :-)  So I had
>> implemented this before.  A call using that function here would be
>> 
>> (gnus-multiple-choice "Continue connecting?" '((?a "always")
>>                                                (?s "session only")
>>                                                (?n "no")))
>> 
>> Or something.  If the user types something else, you get a help buffer
>> and stuff.
>> 
>> Shall I make that into a general function (it needs some tweaking in the
>> prompting department)?
>
> Sounds useful, thanks.  Bonus points for optionally popping a dialog
> (via x-popup-dialog) when the command was invoked by a mouse.

Ok, I'll start implementing this, and we can tweak the look a bit.  This
will be on the trunk, and not in emacs-25.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: 19368@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 18:24:30 +1100
> 
> >> (gnus-multiple-choice "Continue connecting?" '((?a "always")
> >>                                                (?s "session only")
> >>                                                (?n "no")))
> >> 
> >> Or something.  If the user types something else, you get a help buffer
> >> and stuff.
> >> 
> >> Shall I make that into a general function (it needs some tweaking in the
> >> prompting department)?
> >
> > Sounds useful, thanks.  Bonus points for optionally popping a dialog
> > (via x-popup-dialog) when the command was invoked by a mouse.
> 
> Ok, I'll start implementing this, and we can tweak the look a bit.

Thanks.

> This will be on the trunk, and not in emacs-25.

Yes, definitely.

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> To reproduce:
>
>   emacs -Q
>   M-x eww RET www.google.com RET
>   Click on the "Sign in" link
>
> The NSM shows a buffer with description of why it failed to verify the
> certificate of accounts.google.com, and prompts in the minibuffer like
> this:
>
>   Continue connecting? (No, Session only, Always)
>
> It expects me to press either N, S, or A, but that is not clear enough
> from the prompt.
>
> I suggest to change the prompt to something like this:
>
>   Continue connecting? ([N]o, [S]ession only, [A]lways)
>
> Alternatively, the first letter could be underlined (assuming we can
> rely on every supported terminal to be able to display underlined
> characters).

This has now been fixed, and it's using read-multiple-choice, which
makes the character choices underline and bold on graphical systems, and
"[l]ike this" on non-graphical ones.

Some terminals do have the capability to underline and bold stuff, but
have nil (display-graphic-p), right?  Is there a way to determine
whether we're running on one of those terminals?  Because
underlining/bolding is prettier than [t]his.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Agreed.  Two more nitpicks:
> - The cursor is not displayed next to the prompt, contrary to the usual
>   behavior (e.g. of y-or-n-p).

Ah, that's the (cursor-in-echo-area t) thing...  Fixed now.

> - maybe this is a problem in my "popup frames galore" setup, but I'd
>   prefer that the explanation window be displayed in the current frame
>   when possible.

Let's see...  It just calls

    (with-help-window buffer

Shouldn't that do the right thing automatically?  (This may have changed
since you made the comment, though.)

This is my test case for the nsm query, so you can just eval it and see
what you think about it now...

(nsm-query-user
 "The fingerprint for the connection to %s:%s is new: %s"
 '("ssl.gstatic.com" 443 "sha1:91:88:b2:9c:e1:fd:ca:e2:92:7d:a7:ce:12:ea:dc:ad:53:90:2d:c5")
 #("Certificate information
Issued by:          Google Internet Authority G2
Issued to:          Google Inc
Hostname:           *.google.com
Public key:         EC, signature: RSA-SHA256
Protocol:           TLS1.2, key: ECDHE-ECDSA, cipher: AES-128-GCM, mac: AEAD
Security level:     High
Valid:              From 2016-01-27 to 2016-04-26

" 280 284 (face bold))
 )

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Sounds useful, thanks.  Bonus points for optionally popping a dialog
> (via x-popup-dialog) when the command was invoked by a mouse.

I cargo culted the code from y-or-n-p to determine whether to use
x-popup-dialog, and it seems to be working...

> Btw, if you do that, userlock.el cries for using this functionality,
> and likewise hack-local-variables-confirm.

I think I'll leave that to somebody else to fix.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: 19368@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 14:35:13 +1100
> 
> > I suggest to change the prompt to something like this:
> >
> >   Continue connecting? ([N]o, [S]ession only, [A]lways)
> >
> > Alternatively, the first letter could be underlined (assuming we can
> > rely on every supported terminal to be able to display underlined
> > characters).
> 
> This has now been fixed, and it's using read-multiple-choice, which
> makes the character choices underline and bold on graphical systems, and
> "[l]ike this" on non-graphical ones.

Thanks.

> Some terminals do have the capability to underline and bold stuff, but
> have nil (display-graphic-p), right?  Is there a way to determine
> whether we're running on one of those terminals?  Because
> underlining/bolding is prettier than [t]his.

I don't think you should be bothered by that, because 'underline' is a
standard face, and every terminal expresses it as best as they can.
Just use it.

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> I don't think you should be bothered by that, because 'underline' is a
> standard face, and every terminal expresses it as best as they can.
> Just use it.

But underline in addition to [t]his?

I guess I'm asking whether there are terminals that don't do underline
at all, and I would guess that there are...  so we need to do [t]his on
all terminals, unless we have a way to query the terminal for whether it
supports underline?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: 19368@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 18:46:13 +1100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > I don't think you should be bothered by that, because 'underline' is a
> > standard face, and every terminal expresses it as best as they can.
> > Just use it.
> 
> But underline in addition to [t]his?
> 
> I guess I'm asking whether there are terminals that don't do underline
> at all, and I would guess that there are...  so we need to do [t]his on
> all terminals, unless we have a way to query the terminal for whether it
> supports underline?

I think you want this:

  (display-supports-face-attributes-p '(:underline t) FRAME)

This returns non-nil only if underline is supported "in some way" by
FRAME's display.  Where "in some way" means that the appearance will
be different from the default face.

bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> I think you want this:
>
>   (display-supports-face-attributes-p '(:underline t) FRAME)
>
> This returns non-nil only if underline is supported "in some way" by
> FRAME's display.  Where "in some way" means that the appearance will
> be different from the default face.

Thanks.  I've now used that instead of display-graphic-p.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Archived problem report bug#19368 (bug#19368: 25.0.50; NSM prompt is not self-explanatory enough)

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