* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual [not found] <20180528181944.GA32141@gnu.org> @ 2018-05-30 10:21 ` Van L 2018-05-30 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Van L @ 2018-05-30 10:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 31655 > John Darrington writes: > > You need to report this to the emacs maintainers. The page should not say to contact: maintainers@gnu.org > Van L writes: >> Hello. >> >> From the following locations I am unable to see the link to the Lisp Reference Manual, which is expected close to the Lisp Intro. >> >> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ >> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2018-05-30 10:21 ` bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual Van L @ 2018-05-30 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-05-31 2:50 ` Van L 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-05-30 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Van L; +Cc: 31655 > From: Van L <van@scratch.space> > Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 20:21:56 +1000 > > > > John Darrington writes: > > > > You need to report this to the emacs maintainers. > > The page should not say to contact: maintainers@gnu.org > > > Van L writes: > >> Hello. > >> > >> From the following locations I am unable to see the link to the Lisp Reference Manual, which is expected close to the Lisp Intro. > >> > >> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ > >> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html I'm not sure I understand the problem. Starting from https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ I can click "Documentation & Support", and I'm then presented with a list which includes the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual. Clicking on the "Read On-line" link allows me to read the ELisp manual. Which one of the above didn't work for you? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2018-05-30 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-05-31 2:50 ` Van L 2018-05-31 14:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Van L @ 2018-05-31 2:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 31655 > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ >>>> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html > > I'm not sure I understand the problem. Starting from > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ > > Which one of the above didn't work for you? I found the two links, as above. There I located the lisp-intro on an index page but a keyword search for ``lisp reference'’ had nothing which was why I contacted the email mentioned which turned out to be inappropriate to contact. If you’ve located the lisp reference, having it on the same page as the index for lisp intro, in fact, on neighboring lines, will definitely be handy to have, and it would be consistent with how they are arranged on the infopage directory. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2018-05-31 2:50 ` Van L @ 2018-05-31 14:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-06-01 4:29 ` Van L 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-05-31 14:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Van L; +Cc: 31655 > From: Van L <van@scratch.space> > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:50:54 +1000 > Cc: 31655@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > >>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ > >>>> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html > > > > I'm not sure I understand the problem. Starting from > > > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ > > > > Which one of the above didn't work for you? > > I found the two links, as above. > > There I located the lisp-intro on an index page but a keyword search for ``lisp reference'’ had nothing which was why I contacted the email mentioned which turned out to be inappropriate to contact. If you’ve located the lisp reference, having it on the same page as the index for lisp intro, in fact, on neighboring lines, will definitely be handy to have, and it would be consistent with how they are arranged on the infopage directory. Sorry, I'm afraid I'm still not following. What is the "index page" which you mention? And what is "keyword search" in this case, and how did you perform it? Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2018-05-31 14:40 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-06-01 4:29 ` Van L 2018-06-01 7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Van L @ 2018-06-01 4:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 31655 > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Sorry, I'm afraid I'm still not following. What is the "index page" > which you mention? And what is "keyword search" in this case, and how > did you perform it? The index page has a list of all the published manuals except the lisp reference. (I bug reported two links, one of them is it.) The keyword search is the function in the web browser for finding a sequence of characters on the presented webpage. (Command-F does it on the web browser in front of me.) On the following page, https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html Command-F followed by ,lisp ref, results in Phrase not found ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2018-06-01 4:29 ` Van L @ 2018-06-01 7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-06-01 7:56 ` Van L 2019-11-30 3:57 ` Stefan Kangas 0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-06-01 7:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Van L; +Cc: 31655 > From: Van L <van@scratch.space> > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:29:06 +1000 > Cc: 31655@debbugs.gnu.org > > On the following page, > > https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html > > Command-F followed by ,lisp ref, results in > > Phrase not found Try "elisp" instead, and Bob's your uncle. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2018-06-01 7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-06-01 7:56 ` Van L 2019-11-30 3:57 ` Stefan Kangas 1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Van L @ 2018-06-01 7:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 31655 > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Try "elisp" instead, and Bob's your uncle. That’s not obvious to a beginners’ mindset. The surrounding context is unhelpful. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/ On the above page ,Emacs Lisp, has lost `Reference` as part of the title on the top line. But the browser’s tab title is long enough for ,GNU Emacs Lisp Reference…,. I don’t know about Bob but Barbra might want the lisp-intro and lisp-ref to be near each other on the virtual bookshelf. Suggest helpful words to funnel towards elisp, which is near to eintr also. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2018-06-01 7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-06-01 7:56 ` Van L @ 2019-11-30 3:57 ` Stefan Kangas 2019-11-30 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-11-30 3:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Van L, 31655 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Van L <van@scratch.space> >> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:29:06 +1000 >> Cc: 31655@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On the following page, >> >> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html >> >> Command-F followed by ,lisp ref, results in >> >> Phrase not found > > Try "elisp" instead, and Bob's your uncle. The request here is to have a separate link to the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual from that page. I think that request makes sense; in any case it definitely can't hurt. Does anyone else have an opinion here? Otherwise, I'll go ahead and contact webmasters@gnu.org to see if they can help add that. Best regards, Stefan Kangas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2019-11-30 3:57 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2019-11-30 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-11-30 8:48 ` VanL ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-11-30 7:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: van, 31655 > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> > Cc: Van L <van@scratch.space>, 31655@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 04:57:31 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > >> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html > >> > >> Command-F followed by ,lisp ref, results in > >> > >> Phrase not found > > > > Try "elisp" instead, and Bob's your uncle. > > The request here is to have a separate link to the Emacs Lisp > Reference Manual from that page. I think that request makes sense; in > any case it definitely can't hurt. My point was that there is such a link already there. Search for "elisp", and you will find it. The OP searched for "lisp ref" for some reason, and that substring is not present on the page. Personally, I don't understand the motivation behind that search string, but that's me. > Does anyone else have an opinion here? Otherwise, I'll go ahead and > contact webmasters@gnu.org to see if they can help add that. If we are going to add more links to the ELisp manuals (or Emacs manuals in general), we might as well first come up with a list of strings people might use while searching that page, because adding just one random string might not be good enough for the next bug report. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2019-11-30 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-11-30 8:48 ` VanL 2019-11-30 10:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-12-01 7:45 ` Stefan Kangas 2020-01-15 1:43 ` Stefan Kangas 2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: VanL @ 2019-11-30 8:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Stefan Kangas, 31655 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > My point was that there is such a link already there. Search for > "elisp", and you will find it. The OP searched for "lisp ref" for > some reason, and that substring is not present on the page. > Personally, I don't understand the motivation behind that search > string, but that's me. I don't recall the context when I spotted what I thought at the time was a bug worth pursuing. Generally, when typing in a text box for a search engine, I expect to see word and phrase completion. I might've been after in full 'lisp reference manual' and expected that to be the expansion from 'lisp ref'. Not being familiar with the word 'elisp', at that time, there would've been zero chance of typing that in. Yes, you want lots of search terms people use when what they really want to find is elisp; and allow for missed spellings, etc. -- LoL, əə0@ 一 二 三 言 語 𝔖 'VLIW architecture?' G4 White 78 Black 79 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2019-11-30 8:48 ` VanL @ 2019-11-30 10:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-12-01 2:21 ` VanL 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-11-30 10:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: VanL; +Cc: stefan, 31655 > From: VanL <van@scratch.space> > Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>, 31655@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 19:48:17 +1100 > > I don't recall the context when I spotted what I thought at the time > was a bug worth pursuing. Generally, when typing in a text box for a > search engine, I expect to see word and phrase completion. That's the feature of a Web browser you used in this case, isn't it? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2019-11-30 10:31 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-12-01 2:21 ` VanL 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: VanL @ 2019-12-01 2:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: stefan, 31655 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> Generally, when typing in a text box for a search engine, I expect to >> see word and phrase completion. > > That's the feature of a Web browser you used in this case, isn't it? I don't know. I could guess you are suggesting JS is in on it. Even before the address-bar on the web browser functioned as the text input to search engine, landing on search engine page and typing incomplete text fragments did expand to a listing of results. -- LoL, əə0@ 一 二 三 言 語 𝔖 'VLIW architecture?' G4 White 78 Black 79 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2019-11-30 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-11-30 8:48 ` VanL @ 2019-12-01 7:45 ` Stefan Kangas 2019-12-01 9:49 ` VanL 2020-01-15 1:43 ` Stefan Kangas 2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-12-01 7:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: van, 31655 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> >> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html >> >> >> >> Command-F followed by ,lisp ref, results in >> >> >> >> Phrase not found >> > >> > Try "elisp" instead, and Bob's your uncle. >> >> The request here is to have a separate link to the Emacs Lisp >> Reference Manual from that page. I think that request makes sense; in >> any case it definitely can't hurt. > > My point was that there is such a link already there. Search for > "elisp", and you will find it. The OP searched for "lisp ref" for > some reason, and that substring is not present on the page. > Personally, I don't understand the motivation behind that search > string, but that's me. Ah, I see now. Indeed, the suggested search string was "lisp ref". I also wouldn't necessarily expect a beginner to search for that. I was searching on the page for "emacs lisp", which is what I suspect a beginner would go for. I'm also guessing that "elisp" is a shorthand that might be unknown to beginners. > If we are going to add more links to the ELisp manuals (or Emacs > manuals in general), we might as well first come up with a list of > strings people might use while searching that page, because adding > just one random string might not be good enough for the next bug > report. Personally, I think adding a link named "Emacs Lisp Reference Manual" would be enough. Best regards, Stefan Kangas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2019-12-01 7:45 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2019-12-01 9:49 ` VanL 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: VanL @ 2019-12-01 9:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: 31655 Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes: >> strings people might use while searching that page, because adding >> just one random string might not be good enough for the next bug >> report. > > Personally, I think adding a link named "Emacs Lisp Reference Manual" > would be enough. > All I know is there are two works on Emacs Lisp: 1. Emacs Lisp An Introduction to Programming in 2. Emacs Lisp Reference Manual -- LoL, əə0@ 一 二 三 言 語 𝔖 'VLIW architecture?' G4 White 78 Black 79 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual 2019-11-30 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-11-30 8:48 ` VanL 2019-12-01 7:45 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2020-01-15 1:43 ` Stefan Kangas 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-01-15 1:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: van, 31655-done Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> >> https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html >> >> >> >> Command-F followed by ,lisp ref, results in >> >> >> >> Phrase not found >> > >> > Try "elisp" instead, and Bob's your uncle. >> >> The request here is to have a separate link to the Emacs Lisp >> Reference Manual from that page. I think that request makes sense; in >> any case it definitely can't hurt. > > My point was that there is such a link already there. Search for > "elisp", and you will find it. The OP searched for "lisp ref" for > some reason, and that substring is not present on the page. > Personally, I don't understand the motivation behind that search > string, but that's me. I had another look at this with fresh eyes, and I think I agree that there is no need for further links on this page: https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html That page seems to be about enumerating different pieces of GNU software and linking their manuals. It makes no sense to have two entries for Emacs in that particular list. I'm therefore closing this bug report. If anyone disagrees with that, feel free to reopen (or just reply to this email) and suggest a different course of action. Best regards, Stefan Kangas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-01-15 1:43 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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[not found] <20180528181944.GA32141@gnu.org>
2018-05-30 10:21 ` bug#31655: no obvious link to the Lisp Reference Manual Van L
2018-05-30 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-05-31 2:50 ` Van L
2018-05-31 14:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-01 4:29 ` Van L
2018-06-01 7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-01 7:56 ` Van L
2019-11-30 3:57 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-11-30 7:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-30 8:48 ` VanL
2019-11-30 10:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-01 2:21 ` VanL
2019-12-01 7:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-12-01 9:49 ` VanL
2020-01-15 1:43 ` Stefan Kangas
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