* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
@ 2019-02-08 16:49 Phillip Lord
2019-02-08 17:10 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Phillip Lord @ 2019-02-08 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 34390
Currently package.el reports packages as "Obsolete" when this is
probably not a good choice of word, as it is being interpreted as "no
longer in active development".
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2019-02/msg00070.html
It happens when several versions of a package are installed. Consider
this report from M-x package-list-packages
dash 2.12.0 obsolete A modern list library for Emacs
eglot 1.4 incompat gnu Client for Language Server Protocol (LSP) servers
kiwix 0.4.0 incompat melpa-s... Kiwix interface and support.
Dash is showing here are obsolete because in my installation 2.15.0 is installed.
company 0.9.9 dependency Modular text completion framework
dash 2.15.0 dependency A modern list library for Emacs
dash-functional 2.15.0 dependency Collection of useful combinators for Emacs Lisp
direnv 1.4.0 dependency direnv support for emacs
The problem is "obsolete" line appears quite some distance away from
other line which shows dash is installed.
I would suggested "installed but outdated" perhaps. Or "More Recent
Version Installed". Both a bit long.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 16:49 bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used" Phillip Lord
@ 2019-02-08 17:10 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-02-08 17:15 ` Brett Gilio
2019-02-08 17:16 ` Robert Pluim
2019-02-08 17:42 ` brettg
2019-10-23 16:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Basil L. Contovounesios @ 2019-02-08 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Phillip Lord; +Cc: 34390
phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
> Currently package.el reports packages as "Obsolete" when this is
> probably not a good choice of word, as it is being interpreted as "no
> longer in active development".
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2019-02/msg00070.html
>
> It happens when several versions of a package are installed. Consider
> this report from M-x package-list-packages
>
> dash 2.12.0 obsolete A modern list library for Emacs
> eglot 1.4 incompat gnu Client for Language Server Protocol (LSP) servers
> kiwix 0.4.0 incompat melpa-s... Kiwix interface and support.
>
>
> Dash is showing here are obsolete because in my installation 2.15.0 is installed.
>
>
> company 0.9.9 dependency Modular text completion framework
> dash 2.15.0 dependency A modern list library for Emacs
> dash-functional 2.15.0 dependency Collection of useful combinators for Emacs
> Lisp
> direnv 1.4.0 dependency direnv support for emacs
>
>
> The problem is "obsolete" line appears quite some distance away from
> other line which shows dash is installed.
>
> I would suggested "installed but outdated" perhaps. Or "More Recent
> Version Installed". Both a bit long.
How about "shadowed" or similar?
--
Basil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 17:10 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
@ 2019-02-08 17:15 ` Brett Gilio
2019-02-08 17:25 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-02-08 17:16 ` Robert Pluim
1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Brett Gilio @ 2019-02-08 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: 34390, Phillip Lord
Basil L. Contovounesios writes:
> phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>
>> Currently package.el reports packages as "Obsolete" when this is
>> probably not a good choice of word, as it is being interpreted as "no
>> longer in active development".
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2019-02/msg00070.html
>>
>> It happens when several versions of a package are installed. Consider
>> this report from M-x package-list-packages
>>
>> dash 2.12.0 obsolete A modern list library for Emacs
>> eglot 1.4 incompat gnu Client for Language Server Protocol (LSP) servers
>> kiwix 0.4.0 incompat melpa-s... Kiwix interface and support.
>>
>>
>> Dash is showing here are obsolete because in my installation 2.15.0 is installed.
>>
>>
>> company 0.9.9 dependency Modular text completion framework
>> dash 2.15.0 dependency A modern list library for Emacs
>> dash-functional 2.15.0 dependency Collection of useful combinators for Emacs
>> Lisp
>> direnv 1.4.0 dependency direnv support for emacs
>>
>>
>> The problem is "obsolete" line appears quite some distance away from
>> other line which shows dash is installed.
>>
>> I would suggested "installed but outdated" perhaps. Or "More Recent
>> Version Installed". Both a bit long.
>
> How about "shadowed" or similar?
The Guix package manager uses a term "superseded." I quite find this
term to be useful and nice.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 17:15 ` Brett Gilio
@ 2019-02-08 17:25 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Basil L. Contovounesios @ 2019-02-08 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Brett Gilio; +Cc: 34390, Phillip Lord
Brett Gilio <brettg@posteo.net> writes:
> Basil L. Contovounesios writes:
>
>> How about "shadowed" or similar?
>
> The Guix package manager uses a term "superseded." I quite find this
> term to be useful and nice.
SGTM. Though if one wanted to be really pedantic I think they could
argue that a package (either installed or uninstalled) could be
superseded by another package (again regardless of whether it's
installed), whereas shadowing can only occur if both packages/versions
are installed, IIUC.
--
Basil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 17:10 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-02-08 17:15 ` Brett Gilio
@ 2019-02-08 17:16 ` Robert Pluim
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Robert Pluim @ 2019-02-08 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: 34390, Phillip Lord
"Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie> writes:
>
> How about "shadowed" or similar?
"superseded"?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 16:49 bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used" Phillip Lord
2019-02-08 17:10 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
@ 2019-02-08 17:42 ` brettg
2019-02-08 22:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-10-23 16:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: brettg @ 2019-02-08 17:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: 34390, Phillip Lord
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The statement of superseded as used by Guix is that it has a reference pointer to what it is superseded by, and will either point to a different package definition of a new version of the original package.
I think as long as the terminology is clear, and what it is superseded by is iterated properly, we are in good shape.
Brett Gilio
------ Original message------From: Basil L. ContovounesiosDate: Fri, Feb 8, 2019 11:34 AMTo: Brett Gilio;Cc: 34390@debbugs.gnu.org;Phillip Lord;Subject:bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
Brett Gilio writes:
> Basil L. Contovounesios writes:
>
>> How about "shadowed" or similar?
>
> The Guix package manager uses a term "superseded." I quite find this
> term to be useful and nice.
SGTM. Though if one wanted to be really pedantic I think they could
argue that a package (either installed or uninstalled) could be
superseded by another package (again regardless of whether it's
installed), whereas shadowing can only occur if both packages/versions
are installed, IIUC.
--
Basil
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 17:42 ` brettg
@ 2019-02-08 22:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-02-08 23:50 ` Brett Gilio
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2019-02-08 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: brettg; +Cc: Basil L. Contovounesios, 34390, Phillip Lord
> The statement of superseded as used by Guix is that it has a reference
> pointer to what it is superseded by, and will either point to a different
> package definition of a new version of the original package.
Regardless if we change "obsolete" to "superseded" or something else,
I think making the word into a link/button that explains itself would be
a great improvement.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 22:01 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2019-02-08 23:50 ` Brett Gilio
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Brett Gilio @ 2019-02-08 23:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Basil L. Contovounesios, 34390, brettg, Phillip Lord
Stefan Monnier writes:
>> The statement of superseded as used by Guix is that it has a reference
>> pointer to what it is superseded by, and will either point to a different
>> package definition of a new version of the original package.
>
> Regardless if we change "obsolete" to "superseded" or something else,
> I think making the word into a link/button that explains itself would be
> a great improvement.
>
>
> Stefan
Agreed, knowing what the package definition is point to for
upgrade/replacement is a necessary step.
Brett Gilio
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used"
2019-02-08 16:49 bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used" Phillip Lord
2019-02-08 17:10 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-02-08 17:42 ` brettg
@ 2019-10-23 16:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-10-23 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Brett Gilio; +Cc: Basil L. Contovounesios, 34390, Phillip Lord
Brett Gilio <brettg@posteo.net> writes:
> Basil L. Contovounesios writes:
>
>> phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>>
>>> Currently package.el reports packages as "Obsolete" when this is
>>> probably not a good choice of word, as it is being interpreted as "no
>>> longer in active development".
>>>
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2019-02/msg00070.html
>>>
>>> It happens when several versions of a package are installed. Consider
>>> this report from M-x package-list-packages
>>>
>>> dash 2.12.0 obsolete A modern list library for Emacs
>>> eglot 1.4 incompat gnu Client for Language Server Protocol (LSP) servers
>>> kiwix 0.4.0 incompat melpa-s... Kiwix interface and support.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dash is showing here are obsolete because in my installation 2.15.0 is installed.
>>>
>>>
>>> company 0.9.9 dependency Modular text completion framework
>>> dash 2.15.0 dependency A modern list library for Emacs
>>> dash-functional 2.15.0 dependency Collection of useful combinators for Emacs
>>> Lisp
>>> direnv 1.4.0 dependency direnv support for emacs
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem is "obsolete" line appears quite some distance away from
>>> other line which shows dash is installed.
>>>
>>> I would suggested "installed but outdated" perhaps. Or "More Recent
>>> Version Installed". Both a bit long.
>>
>> How about "shadowed" or similar?
I think that's the wrong term, because it implies that it is currently unused.
> The Guix package manager uses a term "superseded." I quite find this
> term to be useful and nice.
I guess that could work, but I don't find it very user friendly.
How about "upgradable"? That makes it clear that it's both installed
and that it can be upgraded.
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-10-23 16:45 UTC | newest]
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2019-02-08 16:49 bug#34390: package.el says "Obsolete" when it means "No Longer Used" Phillip Lord
2019-02-08 17:10 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-02-08 17:15 ` Brett Gilio
2019-02-08 17:25 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-02-08 17:16 ` Robert Pluim
2019-02-08 17:42 ` brettg
2019-02-08 22:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-02-08 23:50 ` Brett Gilio
2019-10-23 16:45 ` Stefan Kangas
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