From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:18:12 -0800 Message-ID: References: <861tjn3069.fsf@yandex.ru> <552D20B6.8030005@yandex.ru> <83mw2abul3.fsf@gnu.org> <552D34BC.4090806@yandex.ru> <83h9sibt0q.fsf@gnu.org> <552D7796.2090109@yandex.ru> <567EA3EB.7030007@yandex.ru> <5683C498.9060300@yandex.ru> <5683CAD0.6020609@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451503345 7332 80.91.229.3 (30 Dec 2015 19:22:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:22:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 30 20:22:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMK5-0008A3-Sc for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 20:22:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53499 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMK5-0006nv-1a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:22:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58894) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMJz-0006lf-68 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:22:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMJu-0003kv-5V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:22:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:43052) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMJu-0003kq-1a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:22:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMJt-0004Lu-TS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:22:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20322 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20322-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20322.145150330016686 (code B ref 20322); Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:22:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20322) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2015 19:21:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMJY-0004L3-Le for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:21:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.220.52]:34817) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aEMJX-0004Kd-0J for 20322@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:21:39 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id do7so943397pab.2 for <20322@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:21:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=ssFgEmUk41uyVnJWd88XfIZ81Iuf7hllAhKho8T/oSQ=; b=xXTv1raiu9JvFIJLcbmFYihtMA4JuNDwjKmapHdZtgx6ObdIsL6/qAsEewZ89WYp10 tnLtu2v6sW3QhdsrIUqidrXm7ODMIyeaLq8DkOvADfsMLudUCdfwLwc0knD3ziFo5UQp CN0NFHdD3yAeF5zjXVJy5fOfhZ/XJ7deusj+Td/TRJngos2+GAkMJIq1fMwZsRDAp0Uy Q682Viz3PndrdOd5giZIx1TKXNA9/JwP9kE1ExVPfI8rQo/ZiYEHsqwga25zpU7o/jIH iPPFAAbxWB9Z6iEP5XnoIO3IbF9FP6gmlwIKmJGPO8IDxcPM7aPLL7C69V1ryBHgGN+y lKIw== X-Received: by 10.66.221.228 with SMTP id qh4mr95117549pac.68.1451503293309; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:21:33 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y85sm24985199pfi.52.2015.12.30.11.21.31 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:21:32 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0DC6011F5D807; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:21:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5683CAD0.6020609@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:15:12 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:111043 Archived-At: >>>>> Dmitry Gutov writes: > I've got only one argument: the longer we want, the more we continue > confusing new user coming to the editor The longer we wait? This has the default (according to Git) since at least 1991, or 25 years now. Probably much longer, since that commit is just there to begin the Git history. What about the needs of existing users who'll become confused by our changing such an established default on them? When did pleasing the expectations of new users become a driving force for these types of changes? We can also expect new users to learn how Emacs does things, too. What I would *like* is for tabs to insert spaces. But a change like this affects far more people than just the target audience. We need an excellent reason to do this. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2