From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nick Helm Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#28790: [PATCH] Replaced "which see" with "q.v.". 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:ME1PR01MB1059; H:oberon; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Received-SPF: None (protection.outlook.com: tenpoint.co.nz does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; ME1PR01MB1059; 23: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 Cp2pfhDJiaq99/UXCMSfCufP2Mdo+uS4gOvKLvlYiUNiY2 X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; 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As someone whose first language is English, I've never > seen "which see" used anywhere else the way it is in Emacs. It looks > totally ungrammatical to me, and I found it quite confusing when I > first encountered it. Please don't do this. I agree that the phrase "which see" may appear awkward to many fluent English readers, but I don't think correctness is at issue here. "Which see" and qv are recommended and discouraged in equal measure by the style manuals I have here, but they all agree that both usages are correct. More importantly though, I think "which see" is a more accessible form for those who are less familiar with written English. Awkwardness aside, the writer's meaning should be fairly obvious to most readers without reaching for the dictionary. In a sense, "which see" is an intuitively shortened version of "which you should see for more information". "Quod vide" (qv) is arguably more conventional, but for those who haven't encountered the abbreviation or learned its meaning, it's a much tougher nut to crack. If there /must/ be a change here, I'd advocate removing the phrase altogether. When a text mentions a related topic, it creates an implicit suggestion for further reading – there's no need to point it out. This is especially true for Emacs, where almost all such topics exist and are in the same resource – Emacs itself – making qv redundant.