From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23783: Minor feature fixes and enhancements [Was: bug#23783: Emacs 25: Changing font-lock-maximum-decoration doesn't work.] Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:21:30 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20160617102500.GA3316@acm.fritz.box> <83ziqiakhx.fsf@gnu.org> <20160618171903.GB5796@acm.fritz.box> <83pore9z4z.fsf@gnu.org> <20160618200305.GE5796@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1466284948 27892 80.91.229.3 (18 Jun 2016 21:22:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:22:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 23783@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 18 23:22:15 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bENh0-00046Q-Fv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 23:22:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36473 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bENgz-0007Do-DI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:22:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:32773) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bENgt-0007Ca-4J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:22:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bENgo-0001ef-3y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:22:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:33131) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bENgo-0001eb-0d for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:22:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bENgn-0000RO-QA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:22:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23783 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23783-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23783.14662849051672 (code B ref 23783); Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:22:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23783) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2016 21:21:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bENgX-0000Qt-H1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:21:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.220.54]:36281) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bENgU-0000Qc-1W for 23783@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:21:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id wo6so2228047pac.3 for <23783@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:21:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=NSmIMWhEpILIvYvbmZApe6oFCDEvfVFEjPuzJHKwM58=; b=eUg/5U7GgXZMLTHtrmz/3hczuB+kdLrZfvXAhls7HA+d2rKpZcf5csb/UskJI9gfIo afSLTBIsPd5qkbSisWciYwRkayMEcs/CE2dPBk9eAKA5t63GWXC7rqphk6/ayYMtFgQE /cMNzsfcq9sNk4lh1g1hw+5TmchbjacH/FQJ7mEGBKZVJT5R6zSz8gfBvJpTnq/u/Jkg DjjHEG1A+FILFB1Rbva689Sp0hQgtXkYBXJHhMe5T1/0GYN/2zkMHF0JJicpXfSCOjwn LAQ4PDIeFTLs8OZ3F/QY9hIjbme7UsTUlZVK8wV6/LpyWTbvkx7hcmwT3NDsbG8C0y5l 5xig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=NSmIMWhEpILIvYvbmZApe6oFCDEvfVFEjPuzJHKwM58=; b=ODcc9NByM4QzkzG71HJQzbacfulASqaZx95AUTEkwrIKoLidDrWEefL0yZ19/RTfzc hi2+m9MqiP+1ps9tkInXtxrx6taxOnFN2pnNmsBbP2f54SSqICrh5NRm5AjejxZf94fx g1utQanNTBwsM8Ly8vQN91Q1RH8k8S7mnVNqPb/okWLclvj4G3SxtHcURdrOHtBM5nB1 nLb3sTI2EnYBmFcwud+vj36B4MUj8RlI2ZPq70ovI9Ds7Am36xgvvcRM4jYfJyj0S9A5 I5dgIkEvfAcwq0PN82V92ZB3QTdP1RKF0+oZcnp4qsVywNZ2Wp0Sm1f9bZrY1KIM91OJ rKOA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tL/lXRHzmun32/uic+qjehY5u2Hq7PDDnCtGH7FXkDYx5EsHZpXTBJ3smIB3apu6A== X-Received: by 10.66.26.136 with SMTP id l8mr11027265pag.49.1466284896065; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id xn3sm77547915pab.32.2016.06.18.14.21.34 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:21:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5D5F098B572; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:21:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160618200305.GE5796@acm.fritz.box> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Sat, 18 Jun 2016 20:03:05 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.95 (darwin) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:119757 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> Alan Mackenzie writes: >> In general, I find that lately we make too frequently the mistake of >> messing with low-level infrastructure for some marginal improvement, and >> then have to invest/waste lots of time and releases to deal with the >> fallout of unintended consequences, broken use cases, etc. I intend to >> object to such changes in the future. This seems just such a case: a min= or >> annoyance whose "fixing" runs a very real risk of breaking a lot of >> important functionalities. > I'd ask you to consider things very carefully indeed before adopting such= a > policy. It is minor changes like these, a very great number of them, that > have made Emacs as usable as it is. While I hear you, Alan, I very much agree with Eli here, and also intend to increase my objections to such changes. We've accumulated a HUGE amount of state, that to some extent is validated by the sheer number of users we hav= e. But there is no human alive who can forsee what the consequences of a core change will be, however minor -- there're just too many ramifications to consider. Thus, we should avoid such changes only to fix annoyances. They really need= to become quite vocal objections for us to be motivated to apply the fix. I th= ink too many of these "little here, little there" type changes have happened ov= er the past several years, and it has not been good for the stability of our foundation. One imagines a bowl of spaghetti. Also, too often these little fixes are hacks meant to be harmless band-aids, that only postpone the discussion of how we should really fix the problem, which in some cases could mean rethinking our design. =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGcBAEBCgAGBQJXZbtaAAoJEMFE2PTxn+YwPLQL/i2YLJ8x6NSozZMOUJatHM3N y9dnIyDDLHOUpQ9sQm3m4CkZGJRYXlzUEAZ8lW3AtDo17t2hiAVeVIoiaNG9PLuW lnvye1fOfpYJLYUBSnyviIgeoOInwSOvplfIUK1OgqM1Nx1/uLiHpiNmB37RHm+w QtVMjUv2vc5ChO/qOy9lsYjxVmawvgeVVva9WfBhwz4NCAjVVndKoS7TbL+FxHvg AT17ogqs2DZP4GTwBGvYmLHWd/48bI5LaYngjAiOmceKdw3hXPsW8sEttlgEgTTj sCeayChIFmFG1lAM1jIxbtIgSKLrzjX7fP9Lr1+SMLqpL/Lg2Rx1yv1kVuOR/L+N UyHECL6NOSgccXkEmplNxC2zetNdvXdyPG/wzriCtz3YNMv+pK8ATQTrX4Q0VK7v jpOcn/tBx4yJWdrnsItOyxNe4IdItV+UYta3cdhoAkPf/mISUT5sze06Ncf7vHhU Mf/m5AJOX3IMNlFkHxVpzaQmPr/gwFIuIuXWB1aq/Q== =v/H8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--