From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22291: 25.1.50; REGRESSION: Emacs 24.3 breaks loading cl-macs to get macro `case' Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:31:28 -0800 Message-ID: References: <61b4ebe0-446c-49df-b5d1-c527a47192b5@default>> <83a8oocr7i.fsf@gnu.org>> <7059fd9d-4ec3-4910-9aa2-f8c07ba9fe01@default> <837fjrc1v7.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451856806 29741 80.91.229.3 (3 Jan 2016 21:33:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 21:33:26 +0000 (UTC) To: 22291@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 03 22:33:11 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqH0-0005Qn-6G for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 22:33:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43003 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGz-0000Np-C3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:33:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46960) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGv-0000NL-Tj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:33:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGs-00035n-NU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:33:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:48724) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGs-00035j-K6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:33:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGs-0006m2-Fi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:33:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22291 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix notabug Original-Received: via spool by 22291-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22291.145185675425998 (code B ref 22291); Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:33:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2016 21:32:34 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGQ-0006l6-FP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:32:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.220.52]:34858) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aFqGP-0006kl-DS for 22291@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:32:33 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id do7so1379426pab.2 for <22291@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:32:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=mGbFXTKnlbHwMg0+HGLHZY0AUKJk3fF45y8ToO6gbyc=; b=BuPdBe2ym8l8cFKOtZllumf9M6BjFRrvGnnwqzYsNXOB7uH7I3VgSfFZz/6CqH7U2A K6KeXChJEw8ZX5OddUJUdolAlUUjZnEQaVoCjjxnM0V13rggsvyde/8zg7ryOVuajXgR Q9e5YmzlBASOog/L/sdkqSOgdVyZq0oWpkYz3SkxzXn388nyP8v7HThc+oE4gzbHBiDt HWZM1RAhkt6vmHhEIYLmrSvuuIbzYTzJXZjL/Qof2NfrzMPvShfNZUENSY2j9YsVYlyd +sXE19GNlLEZQEf4ZzQITlNClxmhvSZHaUW9cmrhzN1JQuschyk323qFGZwouWUJYeuo rKxg== X-Received: by 10.66.141.165 with SMTP id rp5mr62647376pab.56.1451856747965; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:32:27 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 184sm44634356pfa.15.2016.01.03.13.32.26 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:32:27 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 69BFC12000F18; Sun, 3 Jan 2016 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <837fjrc1v7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 02 Jan 2016 19:44:44 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:111169 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Personally I tend to require `cl', and at compile-time only, to get >> such macros. But it is entirely reasonable that someone might require >> `cl-macs' - at runtime or compile time - to get such a macro definition. >> >> And if some user does not compile the code that requires the library >> that provides the macro, then s?he will now get the entire `cl' at >> runtime, instead of getting only the much-smaller `cl-macs' at runtime. >> >> > OK? >> >> Not IMHO. > So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. > From my POV, this is not a bug, but a deliberate change that is well > documented. >From the point of view of the bug report, I agree with Eli. >From the point of view of the issue, I agree with Drew. Drew, let's close this as a bug, but open a new discussion on better organization of the CL stuff. We should start the discussion on tangents, until we arrive at something meaningful to bring to the developer's list. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2