From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Howard Melman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41129: outline-mode: New keybindings for demote/promote/move-subtree Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:48:38 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87k0rx3792.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn1oxs7u.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0rv0wqc.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7my8fu5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10785"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (darwin) To: 41129@debbugs.gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:K/2uquU+lv3zSnAoIv+gw2Vr9kE= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 30 19:49:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIz-0002hY-Bo for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 19:49:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51730 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIy-0003B4-Cp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:49:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52298) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIs-0003Ax-P0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:49:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:44253) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIs-0000ro-GS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:49:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIs-0001Y7-DI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:49:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Howard Melman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 18:49:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41129 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16120325375944 (code B ref -1); Sat, 30 Jan 2021 18:49:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2021 18:48:57 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55799 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIk-0001Xl-Ep for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:48:57 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIf-0001XZ-Cj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:48:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52266) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIf-0003AW-4D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:48:49 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:40996) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vId-0000kU-NM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:48:48 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vIZ-0002EE-VN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 19:48:43 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:198957 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:39:52 -0500 >> >> the command right-word, which is only useful when editing >> bidirectional > > This assertion is incorrect. The real goal of right-word is to > provide a command that works as users expect in both left-to-right and > right-to-left contexts. The alternative would be to request that the > user should decide whether to use M-f or M-b to go in a particular > direction, and that's a non-starter. I stand corrected. I'm a left-to-right only user and I won't make the case that that is more important, merely that I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of other users. >> is so important it needs TWO very similar default key bindings >> (M-right and C-right) > > This command has two bindings not because of its importance, but > because other programs out there use those bindings. Emacs is > following the expectations of the users here. Ok, but in emacs they expect and need both? How do they adjust in org mode? Or is this a complaint that users of right-word have in org-mode? Would users of outline-minor-mode adjust similarly? Does outline-mode support right-to-left oriented outlines? Does org? I'm guessing not because then these arrow key bindings would want to adjust demote/promote behavior accordingly. Should they? Maybe these bindings could be in another minor-mode that could be enabled by those users that want them? outline-use-org-bindings-minor-mode. -- Howard