From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Howard Melman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41129: outline-mode: New keybindings for demote/promote/move-subtree Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:39:52 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87k0rx3792.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn1oxs7u.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0rv0wqc.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1021"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (darwin) To: 41129@debbugs.gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:9BXL2iZjoC0LaavxXG2D7PjHCnc= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 30 18:41:22 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uFO-0000AK-12 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 18:41:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55474 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uFN-0003Rv-1s for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:41:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44210) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uF7-0003RI-UA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:41:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:44197) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uF3-0004Vb-Nu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:41:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uF3-0008LG-Kl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:41:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Howard Melman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41129 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161202840831992 (code B ref -1); Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:41:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2021 17:40:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55743 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uEA-0008Jr-6l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:40:08 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:48864) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uE7-0008Jj-RK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:40:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44134) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uE7-000316-KK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:40:03 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:42864) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uE6-00047x-7F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:40:03 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l5uE4-0009B6-3D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 18:40:00 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:198951 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Howard Melman writes: > >> If I'm correct that the standard cursor movement bindings on >> M-, M- you're referring to are word movement >> commands, then they also have existing bindings on C- >> and C- and are at least very similar to M-f and M-b.. > > That these commands also have other bindings doesn't really affect how > annoying rebinding M- is for the users that are used to M-. So I'm clear, the command right-word, which is only useful when editing bidirectional (not merely right-to-left) text , and even then only changes the orientation of the very basic command forward-word (still bound to M-f), is so important it needs TWO very similar default key bindings (M-right and C-right). And an optional minor-mode, when enabled, can't shadow ONE of those bindings so that its very commonly used command outline-demote can be, by default, on the easy to type and remember M-right instead of only the difficult to type and remember C-c @ C-right to match the behavior of the very popular org-mode. I agree that default bindings should be changed with caution, even great caution, but IMHO if this case doesn't meet that threshold I'm hard pressed to think of another that can. -- Howard