From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Glenn Morris Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15803: default-file-name-coding-system: utf-8 better than latin-1 these days? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:38:15 -0500 Message-ID: References: <708ten8bam.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83shcu3mtf.fsf@gnu.org> <83y3mdwo0a.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1513042752 9358 195.159.176.226 (12 Dec 2017 01:39:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:39:12 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) Cc: 15803@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 12 02:39:08 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZXH-0002E7-7b for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 02:39:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56292 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZXO-0000Vk-H6 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:39:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60057) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZXD-0000UG-Ik for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:39:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZXC-0004uW-Q5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:39:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:48817) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZXC-0004uG-ML for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:39:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZXC-00079s-G9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:39:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15803 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15803-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15803.151304270427461 (code B ref 15803); Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15803) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Dec 2017 01:38:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57498 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZWa-00078q-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:38:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40533) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZWY-00078c-Nj for 15803@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:38:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZWS-0004NH-L0 for 15803@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:38:17 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38710) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZWS-0004N4-Id for 15803@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:38:16 -0500 Original-Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eOZWR-0005rc-M8; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:38:15 -0500 X-Spook: NOC Disaster Suspicious substance Semtex Arellano-Felix X-Ran: ;C\$TU5/VV@T|xREuHIl~|6NLx*qa0J@,4&Eb7=){`7d2Hw=#g7+k;*fHI\O!.nx)iRM2@ X-Hue: blue X-Attribution: GM X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:140962 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Are we sure all macOS/Darwin systems are sufficiently Posix in this > aspect? Emacs on Darwin has been unconditionally using utf-8 for over a decade. It's special-cased in mule-cmds, as visible in the diff I sent. >> It works fine for me on G/L to have source, build, and install >> directories be distinct non-ASCII directories. > > Was it in a UTF-8 locale or in a non-UTF-8 locale? The latter is the > potentially problematic case, AFAIR. I had LANG=en_US.UTF-8. I've repeated with LANG=en_US. Still works. >> If @code{file-name-coding-system} is @code{nil}, Emacs uses a >> default coding system determined by the selected language environment, >> -and stored in the @code{default-file-name-coding-system} variable. >> -@c FIXME? Is this correct? What is the "default language environment"? >> -In the default language environment, non-@acronym{ASCII} characters in >> -file names are not encoded specially; they appear in the file system >> -using the internal Emacs representation. >> +and stored in the @code{default-file-name-coding-system} variable >> +(normally UTF-8). > > Not sure why you removed the sentence which had the FIXME comment. Is > it in any way related to the issue at hand? I wrote the FIXME comment. In 5 years, no-one has addressed it. Defaulting to UTF-8 makes it no longer relevant, so it seems better to remove it. > Why are we changing sendmail-coding-system? It has nothing to do with > file names, AFAIK. I'm changing all (3) things that currently default to latin-1 to default to utf-8. >> Btw, why does the default matter so much? Once Emacs starts up >> default-file-name-coding-system on GNU/Linux is set to UTF-8, if the >> locale says so. Is this just an aesthetic issue? utf-8 is the sensible, "modern" (ie, non-ancient) default. If there is no reason to use latin-1, Emacs should use utf-8. I'm not claiming it's critical. Take it or leave it, as you wish.