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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Jason Spiro <jasonspiro4@gmail.com>,
	bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
Subject: bug#1305: Please disable the audible bell by default, to avoid discouraging newbies in crowded offices and elsewhere
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:54:02 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvzlkbeglq.fsf-monnier+emacsbugreports@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <uwsffsu5m.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:32:53 +0200")

>> By default, Emacs makes an audible beep every time the user makes an
>> error.  It would be great if you could please change the default either:
>> 1.  To not make any audible or visible bell when the user makes an
>> error.  (This would be best.)
> Many other GUI applications beep under some circumstances that need
> user attention.

Actually, in my experience it's very rare for "modern" GUI applications
to beep.

>> B.  Most apps beep only when something very bad happens.  But Emacs
>> beeps even upon minor mistakes like scrolling past end of buffer, or
>> pressing an unassigned key.  It even beeps on non-mistakes like
>> pressing C-g.  The amount of beeping may make users uncomfortable.

> Maybe we should simply revisit the places where we bitch-at-user, and
> remove the beep from some of them.

> But I don't see anything bad in beeping under extreme circumstances,
> and don't support disabling it entirely.

I agree on the principle to beep in extreme circumstances, but since
these are rare (by definition of "extreme"), we should probably attack
from the other side: use the visible-bell by default, and add a new
function that does an actual beep (additionally to the visual bell) and
then try and find the few places where it's warranted.

>> You might say, "But if not for the beep, users won't notice errors".
>> No.  They will notice.  Human eyes notice significant onscreen changes
>> (perhaps 3 words or more) easily.

> The problem is, without the beep, the screen sometimes does not change
> at all.  And that is BAD, from the HE point of view, at least IMO.

That sounds like a bug to me.  In which circumstances does the
visible-bell fail to work?


        Stefan






  reply	other threads:[~2008-11-07 14:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-11-04 22:51 bug#1305: Please disable the audible bell by default, to avoid discouraging newbies in crowded offices and elsewhere Jason Spiro
2008-11-05  7:25 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-11-06  8:34   ` Jason Spiro
2008-11-09 23:25     ` Xavier Maillard
2008-11-11 19:15       ` Jason Spiro
2008-11-11 20:05         ` Lennart Borgman
2008-11-06 23:34 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-11-07  2:19   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-07 10:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-07 14:54   ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2008-11-07 16:52     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-07 18:48       ` Stefan Monnier

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