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From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
To: "João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>
Cc: 68246@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, casouri@gmail.com
Subject: bug#68246: 30.0.50; Add non-TS mode as extra parent of TS modes
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:08:40 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvzfxj169c.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALDnm53R36kXyCXAnVjGT1uAOXg9cdXk1HMMA9fYyAOqJ+72rg@mail.gmail.com> ("João Távora"'s message of "Sat, 6 Jan 2024 00:16:02 +0000")

> OK, so "kind".  So you seem to want to FOO-mode designates a family
> of modes for FOO.  That's reasonable but it  has the confusing property
> that the name of the family coincides with  the name of one of the
> members of the family.

It's actually very common.  Take "Lisp" as an example.
Similarly, `tex-mode` is both the parent of several derived modes and
the entry point that dispatches to the appropriate derived mode.

> Using inheritance for that just seems a bit off, like a hack.

`derived-mode-add-parents` is not inheritance: there's no reuse of code
involved (tho it doesn't preclude it, of course).

> Really what we wanted is a  new variable called 'mode-family'
> and test against that.

I don't think that's necessary.

This is a common programming design decision: should we have different
"types" for the various stages of a pipeline, or is it preferable to
keep the same type across various stages?  When the stages of the
pipeline often do nothing at all, it can be a good choice to keep the
type unchanged.

E.g. in Lisp, macroexpansion returns something of the same "type" as its
input: it's OK to pass the output of `macroexpand(-all)` back to
`macroexpand(-all)`.  Scheme made a different design decision on this
one (for hygiene reasons).

Other example: keys as they go through `keyboard-coding-system`,
`input-decode-map`, `function-key-map`, `key-translation-map`.  Here we
decided to keep the type the same.

> In Yasnippet, if I remember correctly (it was a long time ago), the
> snippet directory could either be renamed foo-base-mode or something
> in a .yas-parents inside that directory can be added containing
> "foo-base-mode".

AFAIK adding a `.yas-parent` containing "FOO-base-mode" just means
"oh, and also include the snippets defined for FOO-base-mode", which is
redundant with the fact that `FOO-ts-mode` already derived from
`FOO-base-mode`.

So that won't do it.  We'd need (like I recently mentioned in
https://github.com/joaotavora/yasnippet/issues/1169) something like
a new `.yas-children` (or `.yas-siblings`) which tells YASnippet
to use the current directory also for those additional modes.

>> That's why in my patch I add `python-mode` as an extra parent of
>> `python-ts-mode` even though they both share `python-base-mode` as
>> their parent.
>
> Right, that's what sounds hacky to me.  They're siblings, but now
> one also is the parent of the other. Maybe it works, but is
> definitely  odd.

`python-mode` from `python.el`, `python-mode` from `python-mode.el`, and
`python-ts-mode`, are three implementation of the `python-mode`
functionality, yes.

The fact that we use the same namespace for actual major modes and for
conceptual functionalities saves us from having to do:

    (derived-mode-add-parents 'python-mode '(python-mode))

:-)

The same happens with Debian package names and Debian package features:
package `emacs` implicitly provides the feature `emacs`.

> That said, if it works, I'm not really opposed to it.  What
> other packages do you know like Eglot and Yasnippet which use
> major-mode in this way.

I'm not sure which modes might be affected (beside Eglot, YASnippet,
and CEDET).  I presume many others outside of Emacs are, since
`derived-mode-p` is used very often out there.


        Stefan






  reply	other threads:[~2024-01-06  4:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 146+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-01-04 22:11 bug#68246: 30.0.50; Add non-TS mode as extra parent of TS modes Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-04 23:02 ` João Távora
2024-01-04 23:05   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-04 23:41     ` João Távora
2024-01-04 23:18   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-04 23:48     ` João Távora
2024-01-04 23:59       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-05  0:35         ` João Távora
2024-01-05  0:43           ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-05  7:51       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 11:27         ` João Távora
2024-01-05 13:26           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 15:16             ` João Távora
2024-01-05 15:34               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 18:02                 ` João Távora
2024-01-05 18:56                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 23:20                     ` João Távora
2024-01-05 23:51                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-06  0:16                         ` João Távora
2024-01-06  4:08                           ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors [this message]
2024-01-06 14:36                             ` João Távora
2024-01-06 15:50                               ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-06 22:22                                 ` João Távora
2024-01-07  6:55                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08  0:12                                     ` João Távora
2024-01-08  3:34                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 10:50                                         ` João Távora
2024-01-08 13:13                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 14:45                                             ` João Távora
2024-01-08 17:15                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-14  2:19                                                 ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-14  3:10                                                   ` João Távora
2024-01-14  4:00                                                     ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-14  7:02                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-14 23:40                                                       ` João Távora
2024-01-15 12:38                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 14:45                                                           ` João Távora
2024-01-15 15:00                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 15:09                                                               ` João Távora
2024-01-15  2:10                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 12:46                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 18:32                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 18:52                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 20:17                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 20:27                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 15:27                                                         ` João Távora
2024-01-15 20:51                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-15 23:11                                                             ` João Távora
2024-01-16  2:09                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-16 11:06                                                                 ` João Távora
2024-01-17  2:41                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-17 10:20                                                                     ` João Távora
2024-01-18  0:47                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-17 17:08                                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-18  5:05                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-18 14:17                                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-18 19:55                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-18 21:24                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19  1:28                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-19 12:43                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19 12:53                                                                       ` João Távora
2024-01-19 13:19                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19 14:01                                                                           ` João Távora
2024-01-19 18:05                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-19 22:47                                                                               ` João Távora
2024-01-20  7:03                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-20 10:16                                                                                   ` João Távora
2024-01-21  0:32                                                                                     ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-21  9:54                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-24  6:20                                                                                         ` Yuan Fu
     [not found]                                                                                         ` <jwvfrxt5e75.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                                                           ` <86v86ovp6j.fsf@gnu.org>
2024-03-09 15:39                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-20  5:43                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-14  6:33                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-14 23:18                                                     ` João Távora
2024-01-15 12:35                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-15 14:49                                                         ` João Távora
2024-01-08  4:11                                   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-08 11:11                                     ` João Távora
2024-01-08 12:45                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 18:57                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-08 19:55                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 20:06                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-08 22:12                                             ` João Távora
2024-01-09  3:28                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 19:18                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-08 19:57                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-08 20:05                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09  3:27                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-16  2:32                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-16 23:29                                           ` João Távora
2024-01-17  0:02                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-17  0:49                                               ` João Távora
2024-01-17  3:45                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-19  5:12                                           ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-20  5:47                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-20  7:46                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-21  0:32                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-08 19:04                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09  0:10                                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09  0:39                                         ` João Távora
2024-01-09  0:52                                           ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09  1:05                                             ` João Távora
2024-01-09  1:04                                               ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09  1:11                                                 ` João Távora
2024-01-09  3:49                                                   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09 10:52                                                     ` João Távora
2024-01-10  1:18                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10 16:11                                                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-11  3:41                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09  4:49                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-09  7:24                                               ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2024-01-09  1:09                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-09  1:31                                           ` João Távora
2024-01-09  3:55                                           ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-09 11:05                                             ` João Távora
2024-01-10  1:15                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10  1:59                                                 ` João Távora
2024-01-10 16:04                                               ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-10 17:02                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10 17:31                                                 ` João Távora
2024-01-10  1:41                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-10  6:24                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-10 15:51                                                 ` João Távora
2024-01-11  3:49                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-16  2:35                                                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-16 10:34                                                   ` João Távora
2024-01-16 17:45                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-16 22:00                                                       ` João Távora
2024-01-17  2:05                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-17 10:31                                                           ` João Távora
2024-01-17 23:37                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-06  8:12                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-06  8:07                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-06 13:52                         ` João Távora
2024-01-05 19:03                   ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-05 23:37                     ` João Távora
2024-01-06  8:09                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-06  3:19               ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-06  3:36                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-01-06  4:16                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-07  6:59                   ` Yuan Fu
2024-01-06 14:54                 ` João Távora
2024-01-08 18:16     ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-01-05  7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-05 18:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-05 19:11   ` Stefan Kangas

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