From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#33855: 27.0.50; Can't see markup in HELLO Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 14:56:43 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87czgbc7kg.fsf@gnus.org> <87wneizybf.fsf@gmail.com> <871qwp9kms.fsf@gnus.org> <83v8u09wep.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7zs9pcf.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29969"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rpluim@gmail.com, 33855@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 20 20:57:10 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ns7oE-0007am-Hq for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 May 2022 20:57:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50556 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ns7oD-0002Ld-BS for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:57:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48702) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ns7o6-0002LT-Sb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:57:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:46224) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ns7o6-0004Rw-Fv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:57:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ns7o6-0007hm-BA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:57:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 18:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33855 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 33855-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33855.165307301629605 (code B ref 33855); Fri, 20 May 2022 18:57:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 33855) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2022 18:56:56 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ns7nz-0007hP-MG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:56:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:24858) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ns7nw-0007hA-62 for 33855@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:56:54 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 50878442098; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BAF1E442083; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:56:44 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1653073004; bh=Oonr4kqxKmAqrgz2bZ77OoKYDeLfUpL9oSRpPBGqHfM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=nUD3t4zFka450H0DNu+0dZKBndfDcV84ntb5REv1vnryhuvYJJ8X/OEE7PtJotVZS g0Z5jwFOk6oFeKz2JqQpqs41szxzq1KpWB4kSb+rxpIJmx2wkhYxzMUF3uTLkRhkam FU2rQ0cc700u3CsSXo9A+If3UfqroZi+8MJqhP+RNq7Kgy9QEMV/o4O6uJzqAh60RA Eiv3rhZ/xj0wHOaVi6/GJHZW72JVqPaF49VyKROEE400nT73JdwZk/PHFfx2pBZPFs PBg/+5lItYThbdkIULh4GbQRE1ieV7M5bV4J7MW5BuyLxCg9U7+PQ0BWf0Qrs1Hm39 ce/th5N59E8TQ== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.221.51]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A7851202AF; Fri, 20 May 2022 14:56:44 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83o7zs9pcf.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 20 May 2022 18:49:04 +0300") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:232788 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii [2022-05-20 18:49:04] wrote: >> Maybe a more explicit one, like `C-x h M-x write-region`? > Yuck! Users shouldn't need to use that command. At least, for this user here, it is what I would do if I ever needed to do that (and I think it's a fairly rare occurrence). >> I can't see any part of my above recipe which says that the user (me in >> this case, I was just trying things out, tho admittedly I disabled >> `enriched-mode` via the menu on the "Enriched" word in the mode line >> instead of via `M-x enriched-mode`) intended to remove the annotations. > That's what Emacs understood: I know but it very much surprised me, so I expect it could surprise other users just as well. Maybe `enriched-mode` should prompt the user to confirm that this is what they intend. And if they don't intend to do that, it could do what `enriched-toggle-markup` does. Similarly when enabling `enriched-mode` if it notices that the buffer is already in a valid format for decoding, it could prompt to decide whether to do the `enriched-toggle-markup` in reverse or to convert the buffer to enriched-mode like it currently does. > disabling Enriched means you give up on saving the faces and the other > annotations, I don't see any reason why the user should expect that. Obviously some users (e.g. you) would expect that, but since it throws away information it seems better not to make such an assumption. Usually our priority is to avoid throwing away information unless the user says so explicitly and I don't think that disabling a minor mode can be taken as a request to throw away information. > because Emacs never does that. E.g., if you save a buffer in CC mode > with all the faces set by font-lock, you don't expect the file on disk > to have any traces of those faces, right? I think this assumes too much knowledge on the part of the user about how `enriched-mode` works internally. Stefan