From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:52:40 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <831qkp6o0i.fsf@gnu.org> <83wn2h5825.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net> <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net> <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org> <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38726"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , larsi@gnus.org, Robert Pluim , Eli Zaretskii , 62720@debbugs.gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 17:53:15 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnLjd-0009uV-Pp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=WGd2R0K4+V/rmtyF3mRU+xTM8ppYiQRhmuooMoiR5H8/+9+ZzxOX0BmyOg0wVEnvA bqNaq66MX7xmOfq1wxXIO7hOojyLYWt1qpdHcVQN2bqjJ1pSJ5P69m29igKHo9x8gf gRXttqR9MmcUX1U5PnC3XkPRARiOyooKUcVG+vXakapTJ1Eis0L7rkEcLwKGpiiFvI lldw16Ju+RvW9LrixxTq5X3et5C5SYBniBOjucSc7j8Ysl431p4tZVWMBhCCdr16k3 wpFJy1T0aNWkjAWgSqLnaS0RwKJO1Q6W3eLO++5c5wQp+AqFkgXqpeVKqXcwPMX/so 1nUJ4BJE53GDw== Original-Received: from alfajor (modemcable005.21-80-70.mc.videotron.ca [70.80.21.5]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2C721202DB; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:52:40 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: ("=?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?="'s message of "Fri, 14 Apr 2023 16:34:47 +0100") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259932 Archived-At: > Maybe you can answer this: if a user is setting up Emacs 28 in company > laptop machines regularly and does M-x package-install RET eglot RET there, > or has a script with (package-install 'eglot), should or shouldn't this > user, in your opinion, be allowed to do exactly the same, with the same > predictable results (in this case getting the latest Eglot), when she starts > doing the same in Emacs 29, which now contains Eglot as a built-in? Good point. I think the answer is that we should distinguish "install" from "upgrade" (and offer a way to do both, of course). And I think we do want to break backward compatibility here (arguably we even can't not break compatibility), because the Emacs<29 semantics of `package-install` is "broken", since it does "install&upgrade" for non-builtin packages but not for builtin packages: either we keep that semantics and compatibility is broken when packages move to/from builtin, or we change that semantics and compatibility is broken by the change in semantics :-) Stefan