From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15095: 24.2; mail items in Tools menu confusing to new users Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:42:42 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87y584tdzu.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> <837gfop2r7.fsf@gnu.org> <87ob90uk62.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> <8338qbpt90.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwojqi0i.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> <83wqnnngib.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2pevpec.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> <83fvuaonqv.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1376599762 24828 80.91.229.3 (15 Aug 2013 20:49:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:49:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Carson Chittom , 15095@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 15 22:49:22 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4Ty-0000f8-3k for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 22:49:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55458 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4Tx-0006JC-PF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:49:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52358) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4Nr-0005ov-Vt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:43:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4Nr-0004y0-2e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:43:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38622) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4Nq-0004xs-Vx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:43:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4Nq-00009r-GD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:43:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15095 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15095-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15095.1376599365574 (code B ref 15095); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:43:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15095) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2013 20:42:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32938 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4NZ-00009B-2m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:42:45 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:58228 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4NW-000091-Jv for 15095@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:42:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [98.143.210.201] (port=50673 helo=ceviche.home) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA4NV-000872-8y; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:42:41 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5E069660F8; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 16:42:42 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83fvuaonqv.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:41:28 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:77404 Archived-At: >> > As you well know, that "Message" thing is the current major mode. It >> > was "Rmail" when you were in Rmail. >> Yes, *I* know that, and *you* know that. But my point is that this bug >> report is not about me or you, it's about being confusing to a *new* >> user, one who is unfamiliar with Emacs. > The mode line is described in the tutorial, which should be the first > reading. A user who doesn't understand what is displayed in the mode > line will have much more difficult problems than to find her way in > these 3 menu items. It's still irrelevant: whether you're in Message mode or Rmail mode has no implication in terms of whether you're still in Rmail or not. After all, when I'm typing my message in Message mode (opened from Gnus), I consider myself as still being in Gnus. Is it really the case? Does it matter? But yes, technically, composing and sending an email is largely separate from reading email. There's surprisingly little overlap from a technical point of view between the two activities. Also sometimes you just want to compose an email (maybe even without having set up mail-reading, since after all, the two require separate configuration as well, even in MUAs like evolution). So I think having 3 entries is fine, but the wording could be improved and there's no reason to pollute the menu with info about which backend is currently configured (or about the fact that Message originally grew out of Gnus). Stefan