From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68075: 30.0.50; New special form `handler-bind` Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:56:17 -0500 Message-ID: References: <835y0i92kb.fsf@gnu.org> <83le9c3z6k.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmsu17x6.fsf@gnu.org> <83le9911id.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6jx0xez.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20632"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 68075@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 02 05:57:18 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rKWq5-00056I-Rq for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2024 05:57:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKWpp-0001ra-D9; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:57:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKWpo-0001rO-0G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:57:00 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKWpn-0008RV-Ni for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:56:59 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rKWpp-0001ue-Sg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:57:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2024 04:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68075 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 68075-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68075.17041713927316 (code B ref 68075); Tue, 02 Jan 2024 04:57:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68075) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2024 04:56:32 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rKWpL-0001tw-OT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:56:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:57211) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rKWpG-0001tf-FZ for 68075@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 23:56:30 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id DC73E100068; Mon, 1 Jan 2024 23:56:18 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1704171377; bh=dAjLoP5WX7fXmGZSCy4TRlUA/W3cCiHfdaKBmDXM4Xg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=id9qIkIlRP5lboEKeMJB12IGDQx7P4RyKpXe27POxeXMpdGBjIJd/DQ893HaCOURg dDatlefFbOan826ylLddOl93b06otqBaCpY/ytiwyDq4bS3/CHCKcEyhe2LgsKFFua iPgeqwv7jHrmT9VKcUdRb8+AKgH3+FOzF8Ep9mPYMXBBVzfqaz2NYbfQCljJ+pYr9N 9rOqW9K599ex+XMW+wfWEgRTcE4TbNGXpb0oIPm+m+3LUIKG4KrdpvkDVm5YzSYhCL SN80WsNh+f64EhVi7EXFUZGb3iexZeVMzTPTL/MqFYQ2wEvjCSBElxdVgUVDug7bqy YW6dXxTZsjzHQ== Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E86B9100033; Mon, 1 Jan 2024 23:56:17 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [207.96.224.130]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D61F412004E; Mon, 1 Jan 2024 23:56:17 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83h6jx0xez.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 01 Jan 2024 19:35:16 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:277216 Archived-At: >> >> So, IIUC, reading that text makes you feel unsure, but you don't really >> >> know what you're unsure of? >> > >> > Oh, but I do: the two references to "dynamic", including one to >> > "dynamic binding" seem to indicate quite unequivocally that "dynamic >> > binding" vs "lexical binding" could be involved. >> >> Yes, it is involved: statically scoped vars are not affected, while >> dynamically scoped vars are affected, which is why the text says >> "dynamic". > > Ah, so lexical binding _is_ relevant to this, in the sense that > lexically-bound variables are _not_ affected! Right, it's relevant to the extent that it's ... not relevant :-) > Then please say that, maybe in parentheses or as a footnote. OK. [ Tho I feel it is kind of silly, since as soon as you consider actual examples, it should become obvious that it has to be the case. ] > And please don't use "statically scoped", I use it in email messages, because I consider it to be the better term, from a technical point of view. But indeed, I don't use it in the docs, because it's too late to fix it there. >> Sadly, I still fail to grasp what kind of change to the wording could >> address the problem because I still don't really understand the problem. >> Maybe you could try to rewrite that bit in a way that you find more >> clear (or if there's still some part of the behavior over which you have >> doubts, then I'd be happily to try and explain it further). > > I hope now it is more clear. Kind of. I still don't understand how/why it helps you, but at least you say it does, which I guess is good enough. Stefan