From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: 6997@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#6997: Loading w32-fns under X11 signals an error
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 16:51:20 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvvd69vh92.fsf-monnier+inbox@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <831v8x6fb2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:41:53 +0200")
>> They can define new functions and variables, as well as load other
>> files, and even set a few things up but only to *add* behavior, not to
>> *change* behavior.
> Not sure how instrumental that definition is. Doesn't addition
> constitute a change?
I already mentioned this loop-hole:
they do change the semantics of the language but in a way that's
usually accepted as "harmless": it only gives meaning to things which
earlier were errors.
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to argue here. It's been policy
for a long time now that loading files should be harmless, so many files
were changed so that (load "foo") doesn't enable foo-mode any more, but
instead just defines foo-mode (and then foo-mode is marked auto-loaded
so the user can just call (foo-mode 1) rather than (load "foo") in his
.emacs).
Clearly, load foo.el will make changes in that it will define new
functions and variables, may add things to debug-ignored-errors and
whatnot. I can't believe you really don't know what I mean by
"harmless".
> Let's take a practical example: w32-convert-standard-filename. Do you
> want it to become effective or not?
What means "effective"? Do I want it to be defined just by loading
w32-fns.el? Very much so, yes.
Do I want convert-standard-filename to use it just because I've loaded
w32-fns.el? Well, no since it would then change the behavior of Emacs.
And indeed the current code behaves correctly in this respect, AFAICT.
> If your answer is NO, then what about someone (not called Stefan) who
> wants to test some issue for which w32-convert-standard-filename must
> be in effect?
He'll have to weak the code/variables that decide whether to call
w32-convert-standard-filename or not.
>> > IOW, can you come up with a general enough definition of the reason(s)
>> > for loading w32-fns on non-w32 systems?
>> The same reason why I might want to load diff-mode.el without ever
>> wanting to use that mode.
>> E.g. to complete function/variable names, or to browse customize data, ...
> That's rather a narrow need. Sounds like lots of labor to gain very
> little (why does it matter to have symbols that begin with a `w32-'?).
Yes, it's a lot of work for fairly little gain. Note that I bumped into
it because my code couldn't care less that "w32-" is special, not
because I specifically wanted to have symbols starting with "w32-".
Stefan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-09-13 14:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 10+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-09-08 9:33 bug#6997: Loading w32-fns under X11 signals an error Stefan Monnier
2010-09-11 21:41 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-09-13 7:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-13 9:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-09-13 11:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-13 14:51 ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2010-09-13 15:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-14 9:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-09-14 11:59 ` Juanma Barranquero
2017-12-15 2:21 ` Glenn Morris
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