From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#11106: 24.0.94; enhancement request: have autoload treat faces like it does options Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:45:34 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7134C9FED9064A64BCE682995B981BB6@us.oracle.com> <54253A206B4248F99B4AD830266E374C@us.oracle.com> <08A31323DD6D4526AE56E760D45A623F@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1332961493 23103 80.91.229.3 (28 Mar 2012 19:04:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:04:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 11106@debbugs.gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 28 21:04:52 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SCyAr-0003zB-HP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:04:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59552 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SCyAq-0005cS-QH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:04:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53529) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SCxtL-0000xC-BF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:46:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SCxtJ-00046A-Gq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:46:42 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36824) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SCxtJ-000465-D4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:46:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SCyNd-0008Dc-Pe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:18:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11106 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 11106-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11106.133296223631527 (code B ref 11106); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:18:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 11106) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Mar 2012 19:17:16 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43656 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SCyMs-0008CP-TD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:17:15 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:25074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SCyMc-0008Bf-50 for 11106@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:17:12 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AicFAKU/KE9MCqRV/2dsb2JhbACBX5x7eYhwnhmGGQSbGYQJ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,1,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="170480270" Original-Received: from 76-10-164-85.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.164.85]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 28 Mar 2012 14:45:34 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 6E7D759437; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:45:34 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <08A31323DD6D4526AE56E760D45A623F@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:08:26 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:58262 Archived-At: > No special problem for #1. It's not completely clear to me how an > option is handled, but clearly the defcustom is not simply copied to > the autoloads file. Indeed, but it's supposed to be an internal detail (i.e. an optimization). >> I can't assume it, since you're trying to explain to me why that would >> be useful. > No, I was not trying to explain why autoloading faces can be useful in > general. Then you were not trying to answer my question (which was not "in general" but at least in one scenario, by the way). > As to the assumption of usefulness in general, since that is > apparently a stumbling block for you: Why, in your opinion, can (real) > autoloading be useful for a command but not for an option or a face? Because the user can invoke commands, but not faces (with very few exceptions). > IOW, why do we have function `autoload' for functions? Why not just > use autoload cookies and have them simply copy a function's defun to > the autoloads file (i.e., not handle functions specially)? Because a function usually depends on its surrounding code, so copying its body without its surroundings would not result in a usable function. Because such autoloaded functions are simply entry points to the package and it's convenient to be able to auto-load the package without having to `require' it explicitly. > The same reason applies to options and functions: real autoloading has a use, > independent of the use of predefinition. I don't see how faces generally depend on their surrounding code. I don't see how the use of a face will often lead to the use of the rest of the package where it's defined. [ I stopped here, sorry, too long. ] Stefan