From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#52063: 28.0.60; Confusing presentation of lambda Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:28:36 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83czmqaegb.fsf@gnu.org> <87v90hu36b.fsf@gnus.org> <83v90h8zjw.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1b5u1cl.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmqp8vps.fsf@gnu.org> <87v90ge5rc.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6hr9k79.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6hruk4u.fsf@gnus.org> <875ysfujya.fsf@gnus.org> <87ee73t10k.fsf@gnus.org> <87tufxr8cc.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20783"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Philipp Stephani , Filipp Gunbin , 52063@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 27 16:29:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mqzdW-0005Aa-Ez for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sat, 27 Nov 2021 15:29:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 52063) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2021 15:28:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34429 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mqzdA-0007QP-0y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:28:48 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:27032) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mqzd7-0007QB-Qm for 52063@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:28:46 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 98B97440757; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:28:39 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 2CE57440999; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:28:38 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1638026918; bh=jAqbHAUkoN3feMzBiPl6JNjvzkrQqsv2eh9NID/lWDY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=bAbqUc+S9Wva6P/AvHaqkJJDF5r1ei1xRntT6FXDq5BbILJQ9OgPsxauJPrPIlQLL h0czUjA+JeSF5Q4Z++34FmJG6++ua9DXwZfbQcuSe5UEN9/kAwyA61H5emUjOLgXwl 09CD7BAkrAJjjmhsvlRu/l/nTiQE0MKvQ47U6SKdL1VlNunyT2vos90S/sZTA4RCO9 ftKT+7w911arni+OrR9R8b+W7DvxXTx5GDhTAU/eEVobLGGE93Kg3U1NmByzuQBoc9 CEZ1usu5vwss9zpebSBfeABOV67NpC1Pkq2uOwjCyE9QJSvlkVTyax3eC5K84Uk+0+ TePJqMj6Dq1xA== Original-Received: from ceviche (modemcable034.207-20-96.mc.videotron.ca [96.20.207.34]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C1672120A1D; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 10:28:37 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87tufxr8cc.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 27 Nov 2021 15:17:39 +0100") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:220939 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-11-27 15:17:39] wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: >> I object to linking the two issues because one is about the `lambda` >> expressions in source code and the other is about runtime representation >> of function values and the two are fundamentally distinct (e.g. most >> runtime function values are compiled). > > I agree in principle, but the original confusion here was that the > runtime representation didn't resemble the source code sufficiently. > You suggested making the runtime representation more similar to the > source code, and I suggested making it even more similar. I'm OK with making the printed representation similar to the source code. But when that is in turn used to motivate changes to the source code, I think it's gone too far. It's hard enough to design good source syntax without such constraints. Also, I think it's good if the source syntax is a bit different from the function value syntax: we want the two to be *similar* so the function value feels familiar and can intuitively be understood, but we also want to make it clear that we're looking at something fundamentally different. That's why I'd favor a representation of the form #[...] or #<...> or ... Stefan