From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#49278: [External] : bug#49278: 28.0.50; Lisp Mode is for Common Lisp Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:25:58 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87y2asa6lg.fsf@gmail.com> <87y27l4kym.fsf@gmail.com> <874ka981ty.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21657"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Stefan Kangas , =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= , "49278@debbugs.gnu.org" <49278@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 28 00:27:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mUz5a-0005Qw-Ra for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:27:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36746 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUz5Z-0006SW-2J for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:27:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58756) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUz5S-0006SK-GK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:59739) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUz5S-00066D-81 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUz5S-0000In-3H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:27:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 22:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 49278 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 49278-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B49278.16327816071140 (code B ref 49278); Mon, 27 Sep 2021 22:27:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 49278) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2021 22:26:47 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43052 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUz5C-0000IK-RL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:26:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:27251) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUz5B-0000I7-5c for 49278@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:26:46 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id CB3A210021B; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E0488100134; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:26:36 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1632781596; bh=gFw2NWU6a0D1U9YcpWr88bcSYtW3M2Phwkz8cK+frOs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Qe2SHg9IQBvKmNYFLetl3yXDrzyfxt99gTEQ1l/6d9jWPKnf9K1+r+0CBCNgep2JM Fl33RL1egJR0py92XN+ZW2SC0fCdBBukjxH8jRgnl2GgkwlC3EYiD7gVgIjgzy8nGF ivwyl+usg/0u1aBLFv3YkljXt55JPckxwSnMwoNqQmfa/4ODifT4ecr4ohTR0vM4gz EUfvuNUPbWIExob/isnAcuhf5V83oPP8xTnNyis1vo2xMnI3hKbOFLn+aCBVZ03BkN wy2RwnombOJDiZEGKa+RkWS9e876lBpkT/fTsogPZIdr6TSAsJcYpaQt1EqriqjqBw 0rrdwI+fvAhSw== Original-Received: from alfajor (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A57301201F4; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 18:26:36 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 27 Sep 2021 22:05:49 +0000") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:215709 Archived-At: >> >> "Because it's only appropriate for Common Lisp." Good enough? >> > No. We don't know that. We can't know that. >> >> Whether it works for other modes is not important. What we should >> document is what it's intended to support. >> >> People have used `c-mode` for many other languages than C over the >> years, yet we haven't changed its documentation to say it for C-like >> languages. >> >> I don't understand why `lisp-mode` should be treated differently. > > I don't see how what you're saying is different > from what I said, but I sense that you intend > it to mean something different. AFAIK you're arguing that we should not say "lisp-mode is designed for Common-Lisp" on the basis that some users may be able to use for some other languages, whereas I argue it doesn't matter what other languages it may be used for unless we know and care about them to some extent. If/when some other language pops up which we decide is important enough (and similar enough) to support in `lisp-mode`, then we can revise the doc, but for the last 20 years at least, `lisp-mode` has exclusively catered to the needs of Common Lisp (even if some people have likely used it for other languages, which I have no intention to prevent or object to). Other Lisps have their own major mode (Emacs Lisp, Scheme, Clojure, Shen, ...). > It's a Lisp mode. (George: "Is there a rosy hue?" > Jerry: "There's...a...hue") No, that's the thing, it's a Common Lisp mode, not just "any Lisp" mode. > We know it kinda works for Common Lisp. You apparently know it kinda > doesn't work for Scheme or Clojure. I neither know nor care whether it does or not. Just like we neither know nor care whether `c-mode` works for other languages when we say that `c-mode` is a major mode for C. > It sounds like the main question here is whether > to call it out as something only for Common Lisp, Indeed, what else do you think we were discussing? > in which its name should be changed, Why should the name of the major mode be relevant to this discussion? Stefan