From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#67836: 29.1.90; map-y-or-n-p doesn't terminate when run in a kmacro in batch mode Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:55:21 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83msubo2vw.fsf@gnu.org> <835y0yo9cf.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7eqthpu.fsf@catern.com> <834jgimezh.fsf@gnu.org> <83v88ykuqh.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30616"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: sbaugh@catern.com, 67836@debbugs.gnu.org, sbaugh@janestreet.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 16 17:56:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rEXxe-0007iy-QA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:56:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEXxL-00032Q-OA; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:56:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEXxK-00032I-1D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:56:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEXxJ-0006in-OZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:56:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEXxK-0005Pp-AO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:56:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 67836 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 67836-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B67836.170274573620773 (code B ref 67836); Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:56:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 67836) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2023 16:55:36 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55871 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEXwu-0005Ox-64 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:55:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:23274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEXwo-0005OU-UQ for 67836@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:55:34 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 676C9441D7D; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:55:24 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1702745722; bh=w/No46gLxafvgMp+cdjBcMKabzzpB0SsqWysRik+r+o=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=IHZq3hMnPwiw4CVoQAYPE35IBWmmhXudXOvUwWU7Zbj3vHhKtVw1D3w9hC3Pn7SNb 1BiH4PPU7xHeJRs+y0C2wggaJpueimGAj0vEO4baH37P9JDvlGG+TRwT7pcG+fhi4x yawRcFONPA6N7M+HUyaBBKEC81BnYCcNaR2l58sF6ebZSb/xUxAFYnLIB54b22L1y5 tTSV6E8pcARGdz8cuqXtCsM3MxGb9GSxH9Dq0Vwiwv1pbVJq5f9SA7ftqdvZv/VXDG z+G16Z0pFoKE3hWzH1FXVkcIeR4jhBWKCVhI1WDOka5VdliPU8qwiMkBbq1chFZ8lJ zpaR8Vja8lmxA== Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6A6AB441D75; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:55:22 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from pastel (65-110-221-238.cpe.pppoe.ca [65.110.221.238]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34F10120E15; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:55:22 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83v88ykuqh.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:55:18 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:276363 Archived-At: >> Could you two point me to examples of uses of the >> techniques you propose? I'm curious to see how they compare. > I'd start by grepping our test suite for "mock". Thanks. I found some uses in `shadowfile-tests.el` as well as one in `tramp-test47-read-password`. That got me to grep "(symbol-function .\?'read" test/**/*.el which points to many more uses. >> There's a tension where fixing such problems at low-level can have >> longer term benefits (at the cost of backward incompatibilities), so >> I think the best is to start by sending a patch that fixes the problem >> at the place you judge to be The Right Place=E2=84=A2. > There's no disagreement on this level, the disagreement is about > where's The Right Place=E2=84=A2 ;-) But before submitting the bug&patch there's no way to know that. It's best if we don't try to second guess what the other one will think is best. Instead, we start by stating what we judge to be best, and then we can reconcile differences via discussions. The only really important aspect is to accept that opinions can differ and that we may not always get what we want (and have the humility to accept that even when we're convinced we're right, because even in that case, we may just be missing the point :-) >> Regarding `ding` in particular. I don't really know what should be its >> behavior in general. I've always been surprised that it (usually) >> doesn't actually signal an error even though its intention is to signal >> to the user that there was a problem. > You don't think we should be able to "ding" without signaling an > error? I think we should, but in practice `ding` should almost never be called from "normal" ELisp code. Most ELisp code signals an error instead (which is then caught by the command loop which in turn emits a ding). >From that point of view, the fact that `ding` itself signals an error when used from a keyboard macro is a bit weird. Stefan