From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#30078: 27.0.50; Use lexical-binding for M-: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:20:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h8rsaz8z.fsf@web.de> <83tvtbn7wk.fsf@gnu.org> <83k1u7mdvj.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1521573557 12808 195.159.176.226 (20 Mar 2018 19:19:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 19:19:17 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 30078@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 20 20:19:13 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMmu-0003CV-3r for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 20:19:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51447 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMox-0003yF-4t for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:21:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53045) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMol-0003wm-QV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:21:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMog-0000cl-4G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:21:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:36381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMog-0000cb-08 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMof-0003uA-O9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:21:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 19:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 30078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 30078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B30078.152157362314955 (code B ref 30078); Tue, 20 Mar 2018 19:21:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 30078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2018 19:20:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44278 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMo2-0003t9-NP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:46707) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eyMo0-0003t1-RO for 30078@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:20:21 -0400 Original-Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.7/8.14.1) with ESMTP id w2KJKIYj006039; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:20:19 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id BEF3F62EC4; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:20:18 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83k1u7mdvj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 20 Mar 2018 08:59:12 +0200") X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered EDT_SA_DN_PASS=0, RV6246=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6246> : inlines <6508> : streams <1781769> : uri <2611785> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:144465 Archived-At: >> Because, having two languages is a bit inconvenient and brings extra >> complexity: e.g. some code snippets only work right in one of the two >> languages (usually nowadays it's in the lexbind variant, AFAICT), so you >> need to label them appropriately. > Are that inconvenience and complexity really so bad? They don't sound > like that. It's a source of bugs, slows down the interpreter, complicates the compiler, complicates the doc, regularly confuses new users who copy snippets of code and use them in the wrong language, ... Also several macros need to know if the code they generate will be interpreted in the lexbind-Elisp or the dynbind-Elisp language, so those are also impacted. The clear tendency is for new developments to drop support for dynbind-Elisp whenever it gets in the way (e.g. some macros just signal an error when used from dynbind-Elisp). So dynbind-Elisp is slowly becoming second class citizen. >> > It would mean old code will not run in Emacs for no good reason. >> That's true. Which is why it's a long-term goal only. > I'm asking why make it a goal at all. I guess in the worst case we could keep it indefinitely. But I hope that in the future no code ends up using dynbind-Elisp "by accident". IOW dynbind-Elisp should only be used upon explicit request (e.g. by setting lexical-binding to nil in the file-local vars or by passing a special `:dynbind` second argument to `eval`). Stefan