From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 14:03:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1430503465 29481 80.91.229.3 (1 May 2015 18:04:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 18:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 01 20:04:13 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFIK-0003od-3l for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 20:04:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55076 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFIJ-0002E9-BF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:04:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33944) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFIG-0002Dz-Ew for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:04:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFIA-0007JC-OJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:04:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:48945) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFIA-0007J2-Ku for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:04:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFIA-00050l-6a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:04:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 18:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143050343519244 (code B ref 20466); Fri, 01 May 2015 18:04:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2015 18:03:55 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58920 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFI2-00050K-F9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:03:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mercure.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.24.67]:42938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YoFI0-00050C-Do for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 14:03:53 -0400 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DAC85F54; Fri, 1 May 2015 14:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from lechon.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E351E5B8D; Fri, 1 May 2015 14:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by lechon.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 20605B40E9; Fri, 1 May 2015 14:03:26 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:59 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-2.82, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82, MC_TSTLAST 0.00) X-DIRO-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:102338 Archived-At: >> What you're basically saying is that we should give up on the >> function-key-map binding which remaps `backspace' to DEL. > No, I'm saying it's unreliable, in the sense that a user who wants to > customize DEL cannot rely on Backspace continue doing what DEL does. Exactly: you're saying "it's unreliable, so just forget about ti and always bind both keys". And if both keys are bound in foo-map, then both keys also need to be bound in any other bar-map if the two ever happen to be active at the same time, so whoever follows your advice will force other people to follow it as well. The end result is that will always be bound and the function-key-map binding will be useless. > We use stuff like function-key-map so that keys do what users expect, > but only by default. Once users start customizing keys, they cannot > expect Backspace to always behave like DEL, not with the > function-key-map method, which gives an explicit rebinding priority > (as it must). That's right. But binding both and DEL should only ever be needed if you want to distinguish those two cases. The purpose of the function-key-map binding is to make sure that if you want the same behavior for both, then you only need one binding (the one on DEL). IOW for the function-key-map to be meaningful, we want to consider any case where the user needs a redundant binding, as a bug/misfeature that we should try to fix. > time. I doubt if we want to do that, which leaves us with this > dilemma that doesn't have a 100% reliable solution. So far, we're pretty close to 100%, and I'd rather we try stay close to that. > Whatever you do, my rule will always yield more reliable results. And will break more other cases where people have followed the path usually recommended (i.e. "only bind the DEL or TAB event unless you want to distinguish the two"). Stefan