bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

[Leo]

Please write in English if possible, because the Emacs maintainers
usually do not have translators to read other languages for them.

Your bug report will be posted to the emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org mailing list.

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug
and the precise symptoms of the bug:

rcirc track mode defines the following keys.

(define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c `") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)
(define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-@") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)
(define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-SPC") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)

When this mode is enabled, those keys become GLOBAL and therefore can
easily step on bindings from other packages. One of them is AUCTeX.

I think it is entirely redundant to bind 'C-c `'. I'd propose this key
be removed when emacs is released. Otherwise it will confuse AUCTeX
users. Whenever there's an error, AUCTeX will ask users to type C-c ` to
get to the error, but instead this key will run
rcirc-next-active-buffer.

bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

[Stefan Monnier]

> rcirc track mode defines the following keys.

> (define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c `") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)
> (define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-@") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)
> (define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-SPC") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)

> When this mode is enabled, those keys become GLOBAL and therefore can
> easily step on bindings from other packages. One of them is AUCTeX.

> I think it is entirely redundant to bind 'C-c `'. I'd propose this key
> be removed when emacs is released. Otherwise it will confuse AUCTeX
> users. Whenever there's an error, AUCTeX will ask users to type C-c ` to
> get to the error, but instead this key will run
> rcirc-next-active-buffer.

The Elisp manual says:

      The key sequences bound in a minor mode should consist of `C-c'
   followed by one of `.,/?`'"[]\|~!#$%^&*()-_+='.  (The other punctuation
   characters are reserved for major modes.)

So, I think only the C-c ` binding should stay and the others should
be removed.  As for the conflict with AUCTeX, I'm not sure what we
should do.  Maybe use some other key.  Arguably, buffer-local minor
modes should take precedence over global minor modes, in which case
AUCTeX's C-c ` binding would take precedence, but this is a "TODO"
feature, so it doesn't help us here.


        Stefan

bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

[Leo]

On 2009-03-12 13:45 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> rcirc track mode defines the following keys.
>
>> (define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c `") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)
>> (define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-@") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)
>> (define-key rcirc-track-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-c C-SPC") 'rcirc-next-active-buffer)
>
>> When this mode is enabled, those keys become GLOBAL and therefore can
>> easily step on bindings from other packages. One of them is AUCTeX.
>
>> I think it is entirely redundant to bind 'C-c `'. I'd propose this key
>> be removed when emacs is released. Otherwise it will confuse AUCTeX
>> users. Whenever there's an error, AUCTeX will ask users to type C-c ` to
>> get to the error, but instead this key will run
>> rcirc-next-active-buffer.
>
> The Elisp manual says:
>
>       The key sequences bound in a minor mode should consist of `C-c'
>    followed by one of `.,/?`'"[]\|~!#$%^&*()-_+='.  (The other punctuation
>    characters are reserved for major modes.)

It seems not many packages are consciously following this guideline.

> So, I think only the C-c ` binding should stay and the others should
> be removed.

Then ERC will also have to be changed.

> As for the conflict with AUCTeX, I'm not sure what we should do.
> Maybe use some other key.  Arguably, buffer-local minor modes should
> take precedence over global minor modes, in which case AUCTeX's C-c `
> binding would take precedence, but this is a "TODO" feature, so it
> doesn't help us here.

One way or another. Given that AUCTeX is one of the major editing
environments for LaTeX/TeX, it seems entirely unnecessary for a released
emacs to cause any pain to those users, particularly when this can be
fixed with minimal changes.

>         Stefan

-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .: I use Emacs :.

               www.git-scm.com
    git - the one true version control system

bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

[Stefan Monnier]

>> The key sequences bound in a minor mode should consist of `C-c'
>> followed by one of `.,/?`'"[]\|~!#$%^&*()-_+='.  (The other punctuation
>> characters are reserved for major modes.)
> It seems not many packages are consciously following this guideline.

Outside packages, indeed.  Bundled packages follow it a bit more
carefully, tho.

>> So, I think only the C-c ` binding should stay and the others should
>> be removed.
> Then ERC will also have to be changed.

Could very well be.

>> As for the conflict with AUCTeX, I'm not sure what we should do.
>> Maybe use some other key.  Arguably, buffer-local minor modes should
>> take precedence over global minor modes, in which case AUCTeX's C-c `
>> binding would take precedence, but this is a "TODO" feature, so it
>> doesn't help us here.

> One way or another. Given that AUCTeX is one of the major editing
> environments for LaTeX/TeX, it seems entirely unnecessary for a released
> emacs to cause any pain to those users, particularly when this can be
> fixed with minimal changes.

Of course.  The question is what the trivial change will be.


        Stefan

bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

[Miles Bader]

I'll note that I use C-c C-SPC more than probably any rcirc binding.

For typical usage, it's important that it be very easy to type, and that
it be bound globally.

Maybe there's another binding with such properties, I dunno, but please
don't change it unthinkingly.

-Miles

-- 
Non-combatant, n. A dead Quaker.

bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

[Leo]

On 2009-03-15 12:35 +0000, Miles Bader wrote:
> I'll note that I use C-c C-SPC more than probably any rcirc binding.
>
> For typical usage, it's important that it be very easy to type, and that
> it be bound globally.
>
> Maybe there's another binding with such properties, I dunno, but please
> don't change it unthinkingly.

I have also used C-c C-SPC both in ERC in the past and now in rcirc. I
never noticed C-c ` until it failed AUCTeX.

> -Miles

-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .: I use Emacs :.

               www.git-scm.com
    git - the one true version control system

bug#2648: 23.0.60; remove C-c ` from rcirc track minor mode

[Stefan Monnier]

> I'll note that I use C-c C-SPC more than probably any rcirc binding.
> For typical usage, it's important that it be very easy to type, and that
> it be bound globally.

It'd be OK to provide such a binding under the control of a custom
variable (that would default to mil).  But by default, it's wrong to use
such a key binding.
Maybe a binding under C-x would be preferable.

We could even imagine to provide such a command more generically (on
the model of C-x `), i.e. a command that switches to the next "buffer
with activity", which could be a shell buffer, an IRC buffer, or any
other such buffer that mostly allows interaction with an
external process (or a network connection).


        Stefan

bug#2648:

[Deniz Dogan]

It seems that the binding was removed in rev 98155 on October 15 2009.

bug#2648:

[Glenn Morris]

Deniz Dogan wrote:

> It seems that the binding was removed in rev 98155 on October 15 2009.

Thanks. Feel free to close a bug if you notice it should be closed.

You just send a mail to ###-done@debbugs, as I did in this message.