From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Glenn Morris Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9082: Add hints to documentation of car and cdr for (e)lisp newcomers Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:47:43 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8762n4ewfx.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87k4bkd61a.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310673208 9771 80.91.229.12 (14 Jul 2011 19:53:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:53:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 9082@debbugs.gnu.org To: asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam =?UTF-8?Q?Sj=C3=B8gren?=) Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 14 21:53:20 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRyJ-000460-7M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:53:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55639 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRyI-0005mR-1p for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:53:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36568) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRtJ-00049f-Gg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:48:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRtD-00072Y-Iq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:48:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:50536) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRtD-00072M-9g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:48:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRtC-0007XG-G5; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:48:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9082 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed Original-Received: via spool by 9082-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9082.131067288128959 (code B ref 9082); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9082) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2011 19:48:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRt7-0007Ww-5j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:48:01 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRt1-0007Wg-1J for 9082@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:47:55 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40758) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhRst-0003RV-Rg; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:47:43 -0400 X-Spook: president Rule Psix mindwar industrial espionage X-Ran: yA5VN?150p;cf7or0jY-#{,{lt@|={9v$l$dE9sl$i:I|c6^=vEF> ("Adam =?UTF-8?Q?Sj=C3=B8gren?="'s message of "Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:19:13 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:48:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:49072 Archived-At: >>> DEFUN ("cdr", Fcdr, Scdr, 1, 1, 0, >>> ! doc: /* Return the cdr (rest) of LIST. If arg is nil, return = nil. [...] > =C2=B9 "When cons cells are used to implement singly linked lists (rather > than trees and other more complicated structures), the car operation > returns the first element of the list, while cdr returns the rest of > the list." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAR_and_CDR To me, "rest" means nothing with no context. It's fine to say: "A returns the first element, and B the rest." But just saying on its own "B returns the rest" with no reference to A means nothing. I might say "B returns everything but the first element". But really, one should read the Lisp intro or something if one does not know what car and cdr mean. The doc string of such fundamental functions shouldn't be expected to bootstrap from zero knowledge IMO. Oh, I see there is already a reference to the lisp manual in these doc strings. So personally I don't think any change was needed... Also to complete my bitching, this should be marked "tiny change" since we don't have an Emacs assignment (only a Gnus one).