* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
@ 2016-02-05 0:10 Kevin Gallagher
2016-02-05 7:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Gallagher @ 2016-02-05 0:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 22561
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In M.S. Windows 7, Started Emacs with
C:\emacs-25.0.90\bin\runemacs.exe -Q
Entered <C-x> <C-f> <RET>
The following listing of my home directory looks as follows
c:/kg:
total used in directory 210 available 150000864
drwxrwxrwx 1 TrustedInstaller TrustedInstaller 24576 02-03 13:31 ..
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 12288 02-04 17:28 .
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 1835 2012-02-01
.aliases~
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 1893 2014-04-14
.aliases
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2005-07-09
.autosave
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 8231 01-31 15:31
.bash_history
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 263 2011-06-27 .bashrc
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2014-04-14
bin-save
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 1404 2014-06-30
.edt-gnu-W32-keys
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 1409 2014-04-13
.edt-gnu-W32-keys-save
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 44241 2007-12-12
edt-user.doc
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2013-05-19 emacs
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 6438 2012-05-02 .emacs
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-05-13
.emacs.d
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 6103 2011-07-25
.emacs-indent-4
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 7 2007-12-09
.emacs-places
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 34540 2001-09-03
filladapt.el
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2005-12-23 .fvwm
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2014-03-14
Game Stuff
drwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None 0 12-06 09:58
.gimp-2.8
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 188 2005-09-21
.history
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2013-07-23 lisp
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 4096 2013-07-23 .lisp
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-05-13
Magueijo
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 3632 2014-04-15
message-20140415-140728
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 2725 02-04 17:33
#message-20160204-172757#
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 195 2011-08-23
.profile~
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 111 2014-05-24
.profile
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 35820 2005-07-03 RMAIL
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 1024 2008-11-30 .rnd
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-12-19
.save-env
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 125 2005-07-09
.saves-2304-janus
drwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None 0 2014-04-14 share
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 134 2014-04-15
stuff.sh~
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 135 2014-04-15
stuff.sh
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2009-04-15 TempSBE
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-05-13 .texmf
drwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None 0 2015-08-02
.thumbnails
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 14000 2013-05-26
videos.docx
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 4928 2013-05-26
videos.txt
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 3672 2012-10-06
vids.txt
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 554 2005-11-18 .xdvirc
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2013-07-23 .xemacs
In Emacs 24.5, the listing of the same directory looks like this:
c:/kg:
total used in directory 210 available 150000864
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 12288 02-04 17:28 .
drwxrwxrwx 1 TrustedInstaller TrustedInstaller 24576 02-03 13:31 ..
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 1893 2014-04-14
.aliases
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 1835 2012-02-01
.aliases~
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2005-07-09
.autosave
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 8231 01-31 15:31
.bash_history
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 263 2011-06-27 .bashrc
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 1404 2014-06-30
.edt-gnu-W32-keys
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 1409 2014-04-13
.edt-gnu-W32-keys-save
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 6438 2012-05-02 .emacs
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 6103 2011-07-25
.emacs-indent-4
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 7 2007-12-09
.emacs-places
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-05-13
.emacs.d
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2005-12-23 .fvwm
drwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None 0 12-06 09:58
.gimp-2.8
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 188 2005-09-21
.history
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 4096 2013-07-23 .lisp
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 111 2014-05-24
.profile
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 195 2011-08-23
.profile~
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 1024 2008-11-30 .rnd
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-12-19
.save-env
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 125 2005-07-09
.saves-2304-janus
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-05-13 .texmf
drwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None 0 2015-08-02
.thumbnails
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 554 2005-11-18 .xdvirc
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2013-07-23 .xemacs
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2014-03-14
Game Stuff
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2012-05-13
Magueijo
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 35820 2005-07-03 RMAIL
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2009-04-15 TempSBE
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2014-04-14
bin-save
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 44241 2007-12-12
edt-user.doc
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2013-05-19 emacs
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 34540 2001-09-03
filladapt.el
drwxrwxrwx 1 kgallagh None 0 2013-07-23 lisp
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 3632 2014-04-15
message-20140415-140728
drwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None 0 2014-04-14 share
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 135 2014-04-15
stuff.sh
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 134 2014-04-15
stuff.sh~
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 14000 2013-05-26
videos.docx
-rw-rw-rw- 1 Administrators None 4928 2013-05-26
videos.txt
-rw-rw-rw- 1 kgallagh None 3672 2012-10-06
vids.txt
I believe the listing in Emacs 24.5 is preferable. It 25.0.90, it is as
if the initial period in any file/directory entry is being ignored when
sorting alphabetically. Also, upper and lower case are also being ignored.
In GNU Emacs 25.0.90.2 (i686-pc-mingw32)
of 2016-01-31 built on JANUS3
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
'configure --prefix=/c/emacs-25.0.90 CPPFLAGS=-I/c/usr/include'
Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF SOUND NOTIFY ACL TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
Important settings:
value of $LANG: ENU
locale-coding-system: cp1252
Major mode: Dired by name
Minor modes in effect:
tooltip-mode: t
global-eldoc-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
tool-bar-mode: t
menu-bar-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
blink-cursor-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
buffer-read-only: t
line-number-mode: t
transient-mark-mode: t
Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Load-path shadows:
None found.
Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec
epg epg-config gnus-util mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse
rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mm-util help-fns help-mode easymenu cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib
mail-prsvr mail-utils dired time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric
uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp
disp-table w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar
mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice
loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay
sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote w32notify w32 multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)
Memory information:
((conses 8 91893 10306)
(symbols 32 19566 0)
(miscs 32 40 181)
(strings 16 16515 3771)
(string-bytes 1 437792)
(vectors 8 12386)
(vector-slots 4 426311 4428)
(floats 8 160 112)
(intervals 28 782 407)
(buffers 516 12))
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
2016-02-05 0:10 Kevin Gallagher
@ 2016-02-05 7:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-05 10:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-05 7:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Gallagher; +Cc: 22561
> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 18:10:28 -0600
> From: Kevin Gallagher <kevin.gal@verizon.net>
>
> I believe the listing in Emacs 24.5 is preferable. It 25.0.90, it is as if the initial period in any file/directory entry is
> being ignored when sorting alphabetically. Also, upper and lower case are also being ignored.
It's a new feature, meant to emulate more closely what Emacs and 'ls'
do on GNU/Linux. From NEWS:
*** The ls-lisp package uses `string-collate-lessp' to sort file names.
If you want the old, locale-independent sorting, customize the new
option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a nil value.
OK to close this bug?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
2016-02-05 7:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-02-05 10:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-05 10:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: kevin.gal; +Cc: 22561
> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 09:15:52 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: 22561@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> It's a new feature, meant to emulate more closely what Emacs and 'ls'
> do on GNU/Linux. From NEWS:
>
> *** The ls-lisp package uses `string-collate-lessp' to sort file names.
> If you want the old, locale-independent sorting, customize the new
> option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a nil value.
I've now expanded that entry to better explain the effects of this
change.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
[not found] ` <<83zivfvd93.fsf@gnu.org>
@ 2016-02-05 15:32 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 19:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2016-02-05 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii, Kevin Gallagher; +Cc: 22561
> > I believe the listing in Emacs 24.5 is preferable. It 25.0.90, it is as if
> > the initial period in any file/directory entry is
> > being ignored when sorting alphabetically. Also, upper and lower case are
> > also being ignored.
>
> It's a new feature, meant to emulate more closely what Emacs and 'ls'
> do on GNU/Linux. From NEWS:
>
> *** The ls-lisp package uses `string-collate-lessp' to sort file names.
> If you want the old, locale-independent sorting, customize the new
> option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a nil value.
>
> OK to close this bug?
Why was the default behavior changed? Why not let Windows _users_
choose to sort in this new way? If, after several years of that,
users are clamouring for the default behavior to change, emacs-devel
can discuss that possibility and perhaps change to using
`string-collate-lessp' by default.
It should be:
If you want the new, locale-dependent sorting, customize the new
option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a non-nil value.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
2016-02-05 15:32 ` Drew Adams
@ 2016-02-05 19:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-05 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 22561, kevin.gal
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 07:32:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: 22561@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > *** The ls-lisp package uses `string-collate-lessp' to sort file names.
> > If you want the old, locale-independent sorting, customize the new
> > option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a nil value.
> >
> > OK to close this bug?
>
> Why was the default behavior changed?
Because it's a better default.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
[not found] ` <<83wpqjt0l6.fsf@gnu.org>
@ 2016-02-05 20:00 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 21:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2016-02-05 20:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii, Drew Adams; +Cc: 22561, kevin.gal
> > > *** The ls-lisp package uses `string-collate-lessp' to sort file
> names.
> > > If you want the old, locale-independent sorting, customize the new
> > > option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a nil value.
> > >
> > > OK to close this bug?
> >
> > Why was the default behavior changed?
>
> Because it's a better default.
Why? What supporting reasons?
Was there discussion about that, or did someone just decide
it without discussion?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
2016-02-05 20:00 ` Drew Adams
@ 2016-02-05 21:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-06 23:17 ` Kevin Gallagher
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-05 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 22561, kevin.gal
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:00:53 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: kevin.gal@verizon.net, 22561@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > > > *** The ls-lisp package uses `string-collate-lessp' to sort file
> > names.
> > > > If you want the old, locale-independent sorting, customize the new
> > > > option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a nil value.
> > > >
> > > > OK to close this bug?
> > >
> > > Why was the default behavior changed?
> >
> > Because it's a better default.
>
> Why? What supporting reasons?
It's closer to what Emacs does on GNU/Linux. It is also closer to
what the Windows Explorer does.
> Was there discussion about that, or did someone just decide
> it without discussion?
There were lots of discussions when this was introduced.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
[not found] ` <<83powau8dc.fsf@gnu.org>
@ 2016-02-05 22:55 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2016-02-05 22:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii, Drew Adams; +Cc: 22561, kevin.gal
> > > > Why was the default behavior changed?
> > > Because it's a better default.
> > Why? What supporting reasons?
>
> It's closer to what Emacs does on GNU/Linux. It is also closer to
> what the Windows Explorer does.
>
> > Was there discussion about that, or did someone just decide
> > it without discussion?
>
> There were lots of discussions when this was introduced.
OK; thanks. I must have missed that.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
2016-02-05 21:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-02-06 23:17 ` Kevin Gallagher
2016-02-07 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Gallagher @ 2016-02-06 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii, Drew Adams; +Cc: 22561
On 2/5/2016 3:58 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:00:53 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
>> Cc: kevin.gal@verizon.net, 22561@debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>>>>> *** The ls-lisp package uses `string-collate-lessp' to sort file
>>> names.
>>>>> If you want the old, locale-independent sorting, customize the new
>>>>> option `ls-lisp-use-string-collate' to a nil value.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK to close this bug?
>>>> Why was the default behavior changed?
>>> Because it's a better default.
>> Why? What supporting reasons?
> It's closer to what Emacs does on GNU/Linux. It is also closer to
> what the Windows Explorer does.
>
>> Was there discussion about that, or did someone just decide
>> it without discussion?
> There were lots of discussions when this was introduced.
>
OK, since the change is documented, I agree it is clearly not a bug.
But I would submit that, when using Emacs on Windows, having dired
display a directory precisely the same way Windows Explorer displays it
is a better default. To accomplish this, the following two
customizations suffice.
In the Ls Lisp group, do the following:
-- toggle Ls Lisp Uca Like Collation to off (nil)
-- toggle Ls Lisp Dirs First to on (non-nil)
---
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows
2016-02-06 23:17 ` Kevin Gallagher
@ 2016-02-07 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-07 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Gallagher; +Cc: 22561-done
> Cc: 22561@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Kevin Gallagher <kevin.gal@verizon.net>
> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2016 17:17:23 -0600
>
> OK, since the change is documented, I agree it is clearly not a bug.
Thanks, closing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-02-07 15:52 UTC | newest]
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2016-02-05 22:55 ` bug#22561: 25.0.90; dired alphabetic sort of listing handles leading '.' strangely on MS Windows Drew Adams
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2016-02-05 20:00 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-05 21:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
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2016-02-05 15:32 ` Drew Adams
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2016-02-05 7:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
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