From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24510: 25.1; Info: searching for ` does not find what looks like ` Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <6905ca6f-0573-4a2b-b346-d5df47862e09@default> <83intneq2g.fsf@gnu.org> <7f9c8f95-a04d-4e94-9c17-8a348bf89215@default> <4efff3a1-59ae-5009-b4de-d1ea17c2e84d@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1474580809 10667 195.159.176.226 (22 Sep 2016 21:46:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:46:49 +0000 (UTC) To: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel , 24510@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 22 23:46:45 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBp5-00007F-Fl for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 23:46:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34747 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBp3-00061T-Rs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:46:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54445) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBNg-00021M-SM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:18:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBNa-0006Wt-Sj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:18:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:54811) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBNa-0006Wf-PD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBNa-00040j-E5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:18:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:18:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24510 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 24510-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24510.147457903515362 (code B ref 24510); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:18:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24510) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2016 21:17:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBMp-0003zh-3p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:17:15 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:22872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bnBMn-0003zV-0d for 24510@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 17:17:13 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8MLH6Xw015990 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:17:07 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8MLH6se014168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:17:06 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8MLH0qp015430; Thu, 22 Sep 2016 21:17:06 GMT In-Reply-To: <4efff3a1-59ae-5009-b4de-d1ea17c2e84d@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:123569 Archived-At: > >>> And it is not matched to that character by Isearch. > >> > > >> > It might, if you turn on character-folding in Isearch. > >> > Unfortunately, that is off by default. > > > > I did mention that this is what a user sees by DEFAULT, no? > > > > And I did propose that one fix could be for search to find > > this character - by default - when you hit the backquote key: >=20 > The fix that you propose was already discussed, albeit as part of a large= r > change (the one that Eli pointed to, namely enabling character folding by > default). And Eli was, IIRC, in favor of it. >=20 > Do you think it would be useful to have a specific hack for just ` vs =E2= =80=98? > I'd find it very confusing. >=20 > Maybe we can come up with a more limited version of character folding, an= d > enable that by default? This should solve this problem, right? I've brought the problem to your attention. A solution would be good to have. It should not be enough that the response is (1) "It works for me" and (2) users need to customize their fonts, to fix things on their end. That's not the right approach, IMO. >From a user point of view, and ignoring whatever good or bad reasons might be behind the changes made, (1) Info now uses curly quotes, by default, to delimit names, and (2) Isearch does not, by default, fold ` and ' so that they match those new delimiters. This combination is not good, for users. If the delimiters must be changed to curly quotes, AND if they are not noticeably different (i.e., quite obviously different) from the characters that users have used to search for delimited names for decades (since the beginning of Emacs), then Isearch needs to fold them by default, I think. Another solution, which I also mentioned, is to try to ensure that in the default font, for at least common platforms (and MS Windows is one of those, I think), the delimiter chars are quite obviously different from ` and '. If you do not want to enable char-folding by default in 25.1, or at least quote-folding, then I think the default font needs to be changed, to make this newly imposed character discrepency blatantly obvious to users. And the doc and NEWS need to prominently point out to users that names in Info are now delimited using characters for which they (probably) do not have simple keyboard keys. That message should also tell them how to insert the delimiter chars in search strings (toggle char-folding or otherwise insert them). Do you see another solution? Pop up a message whenever they insert a backquote followed by a letter into the search string, warning them that a backquote does not match a name delimiter? Warn them to customize their font, if they want to avoid confusion? I don't think so.