From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23604: desktop-restore-in-current-display should default to t Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <278b113b-21aa-5c54-6550-79bf1e481530@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1464023726 10271 80.91.229.3 (23 May 2016 17:15:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 17:15:26 +0000 (UTC) To: Paul Eggert , 23604@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 23 19:15:14 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tRh-0005l6-D6 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 19:15:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49465 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tRg-0006iW-FU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 13:15:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41940) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tRZ-0006gz-IA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 13:15:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tRW-0004dO-5j for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 13:15:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:50968) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tRW-0004dD-2H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 13:15:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tRV-0004Si-PS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 13:15:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 17:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23604 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23604-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23604.146402365617079 (code B ref 23604); Mon, 23 May 2016 17:15:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23604) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 May 2016 17:14:16 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tQm-0004RP-6C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 13:14:16 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:35295) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1b4tQk-0004RB-FC for 23604@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 May 2016 13:14:14 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u4NHE1N0024920 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2016 17:14:01 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u4NHE0iv018227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2016 17:14:00 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u4NHDxZY009087; Mon, 23 May 2016 17:13:59 GMT In-Reply-To: <278b113b-21aa-5c54-6550-79bf1e481530@cs.ucla.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:118573 Archived-At: > The current default value for desktop-restore-in-current-display is nil, > and this default causes real problems with Emacs users that run the tmux > terminal multiplexer atop xterm. Emacs hangs, and users have to kill it. > To work around this problem for most users, let's change the default > value from nil to t. >=20 > This request is inspired by Bug#20247, which is currently listed as a > blocker for Emacs 25. I'm filing this new bug report so that we can list > the new bug report as a blocker for Emacs 25, and stop listing Bug#20247 > as a blocker. The underlying bug will still be present, but there is no > trivial fix for it and the idea is that fixing the underlying bug can > wait until after Emacs 25 comes out. >=20 > The bottom line is that this new bug report asks to install the patch > described in . The default value should, I think, be nil. A priori, it should be nil because that was the chosen design for this variable. And because that is generally the behavior for other desktop settings that are recorded - desktop generally tries to restore as much of the previous session as possible, by default. Reasonable arguments to the contrary could be presented. Until then, I'm not convinced - a priori, I favor the nil default chosen for the original design. So far, we have heard no such arguments - which is OK as long as the change to t for now is regarded as only a tempoerary expedient. We can discuss the proper default behavior later, in the context of (unresolved) bug #20247. Changing the default to t now (for Emacs 25.1) should be regarded as only a temporary, hack workaround, not a deliberate change in the design. No design arguments have been given for changing it. The choice of the default value (beyond this temporary workaround) should not be governed by the existence of bug #20247. Instead, that bug should be fixed and the best default value chosen based on what helps users the most. Choosing a default value should not be based on the fact that there is a bad bug when one of the values is used. If we did that, that would also be an argument for not allowing that value as a possibility at all. As long as nil can lead to Emacs hanging, the use (not just by default) of nil is inappropriate. It is too bad to change a default value only as a temporary workaround, and then change it back again when the bug worked around is finally fixed. We should avoid doing this in Emacs. Changing th default value to t does not fix bug #20247, we all (finally) agree. Apparently we are in such a hurry to toss Emacs 25.1 over the wall that we don't want to take the time to fix this bug (#20247). That's too bad, IMO. (In the old (RMS) days, I think the release would have been delayed for this.) An alternative, and less inappropriate workaround could perhaps be (i.e., have been) to change the default value only for the platform where this bug was reported, if we had some idea that other platforms were not necessarily affected by it. Anyway, the right course of action now (if Emacs 25.1 is released with the default value changed to t) is (after the 25.1 release) to fix bug #20247 and revert the default value to nil. At that point, if there is disagreement about the default value, i.e., if someone really thinks it should be t by design (and not just as a workaround), then we can discuss the pros & cons for the default behavior. One opinion.