From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#26233: 26.0.50; [PATCH] Improve documentation for display-buffer-alist Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 07:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <<87o9wq6c31.fsf@wi.uni-muenster.de> <1a350894-ae16-4706-888f-6575cdc559ec@default>> <<878tnt6bdi.fsf@informationelle-selbstbestimmung-im-internet.de>> <<83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1490452694 13812 195.159.176.226 (25 Mar 2017 14:38:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:38:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 26233@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Jens Lechtenboerger Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 25 15:38:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmpU-0002kZ-5R for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:38:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37563 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crmpY-0003Xr-DM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:38:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35734) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crmpR-0003Xm-SA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:38:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crmpO-00060v-Ib for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:38:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:46232) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1crmpO-00060q-EN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmpN-0002c4-WF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:38:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 26233 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 26233-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B26233.14904526249966 (code B ref 26233); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:38:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 26233) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2017 14:37:04 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmoS-0002ag-CW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:37:04 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:32838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1crmoQ-0002aC-QS for 26233@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:37:03 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v2PEatsh023920 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:36:56 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2PEatRV002750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:36:55 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0009.oracle.com (abhmp0009.oracle.com [141.146.116.15]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v2PEasPc011166; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 14:36:54 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83shm1bvud.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:130929 Archived-At: > > >> in Bug#25946 we discussed how to replace the obsolete variables > > >> special-display-buffer-names and special-display-regexps. The > > >> attached patch extends the doc string of display-buffer-alist > > >> based on that discussion. > > > > > > FWIW: > > > > > > 1. I *strongly* object to the deprecation of these user > > > options. > > > [...] > > > > I agree wholeheartedly. >=20 > Those variables were obsoleted in Emacs 24.3, which was released > 4 years ago. Isn't it too late to strongly object now to their > deprecation? That ship sailed long ago. 1. No, it should not be "too late" to do something sensible. 2. I _did_ object at the time. And several times since. With reasoned arguments each time. The arguments are still valid. 3. If for some reason Emacs stubbornly still does not want to rehabilitate these options and document them prominently (e.g. in the manual), then it should (IMHO) at the very least explicitly decide to leave them deprecated and supported - i.e., express the intention not to desupport them. (Obviously, #3 is not what I prefer.) To be clear, I have no objection to the point of view that says that our docs should encourage users to use `display-buffer-alist'. I suspect that that was the (only?) aim behind the deprecations: `d-b-a' was to completely replace them, since it is a more general tool. But we need not throw out the motorbike just because we now have a minivan, which is larger and more general-purpose. These are simple-to-use, well-defined options (just as well-defined as `display-buffer-alist'), which provide a class of solid special cases (use cases). In fact, we would be well advised to think about perhaps creating additional simple ways to provide other special cases of `display-buffer-alist'. This is not a race ("Time's up!"). These options work just as well today as they did when they were deprecated. No reason was ever given for their deprecation, beyond "We now have the more general `display-buffer-alist'." And if some users were steered away from them in the interim, that is not the end of the world. These are _conveniences_, and good ones. No one is obliged to use them. If someone prefers to slash her way through the `display-buffer-alist' jungle for such simple use cases, more power to her! `display-buffer-alist' is notoriously difficult to understand and make use of. As one example, though I've asked several times how to use it to get the same effect provided by these options I've never gotten a response. That's the first step for Emacs to take, IMO, after undeprecating these options (as well as anything else "special-display", of course, such as `special-display-alist'): State in the doc exactly how they correspond to a special case of using `display-buffer-alist'. _Show_ the equivalence.