From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3465: 23.0.94; feature request: be able to log minibuffer messages Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87a8keeufp.fsf@gnus.org> <87r3dq248n.fsf@gnu.org> <87ziseu7bh.fsf@gnus.org> <87zh6pkv4b.fsf@gnus.org> <83364hceou.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0xtktxc.fsf@gnus.org> <83wo1taywj.fsf@gnu.org> <871rk1ksob.fsf@gnus.org> <83sgchaydm.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgchjd9r.fsf@gnus.org> <83tuwv9mm2.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11952"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 3465@debbugs.gnu.org, 4477@debbugs.gnu.org, bojohan@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 22 18:55:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9WnN-00030I-FX for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:17 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07MGs1iN193171; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:16 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332u60jx0p-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:16 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 07MGsFLg013952; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 16:54:16 GMT In-Reply-To: <87ft8en62j.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9720 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220186 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9720 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008220186 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:185975 Archived-At: > >> There's no problem with logging in general. The request is to also ha= ve > >> the messages output by the minibuffer-message function also end up in > >> the *Messages* buffer. No. The request is to _be able_ to also log `minibuffer-message' feedback. > > By default? I'd object to that. As an option, maybe;=20 The bug requested to _be able to_ do it. Not to do it by default. > > but then I > > don't understand why this is requested as a core feature, since any > > Lisp program that wants this can simply call 'message' with the same > > string, and be done. No. `minibuffer-message' has an entirely different UI effect. You are coupling the UI effect (messaging) with the logging effect. It is you, even in your "but then" (i.e., NOT by default), who are saying that every time logging is wanted the UI effect of `message' is also wanted. That's exactly the point of this bug: 1. `message' and `minibuffer-message' have different UI effects. They are used for different things. 2. `message' can be logged. `minibuffer-message' cannot. The point is to be able to log `minibuffer-message', WITHOUT getting the different UI effect of `message'. Please reread the bug report. I don't think it's hard to understand the request: Be able to also log `minibuffer-message' output. And obviously WITHOUT calling `message', which is not logging `minibuffer-message' but logging `message', and which adds the UI effect of `message'. > I thought it would make sense to have that function behave as regularly > as possible... >=20 > However, looking at the use cases for minibuffer-message, all of the > in-tree calls are trivial: "Confirm". "Incomplete". "Hit space to > flush". All of those things are UI details that would be surprising to > have land in the *Messages* buffer. This is irrelevant. User code - 3rd-party libraries can, and do, use `minibuffer-message' in other ways. Don't judge what something is used for generally by such trivial uses of it. Uses of the minibuffer by vanilla Emacs are mostly trivial, There's not much user interaction, not many keys/actions possible in the minibuffer, etc. > So I agree with Eli, and I don't think this is something that > minibuffer-message should do at all. If something wants to do a > minibuffer-message and log it, then that thing should just do both. >=20 > So I'm closing this bug report. Eli seems to have clearly misunderstood the request. And you seem to have based your conclusion of how `minibuffer-message' is and can be used only on its few uses in the vanilla code, which are trivial uses. Please reopen this enhancement request. It's simply a request to _be able to_ log `minibuffer-message' output. Not a big deal. `message' does NOT replace `minibuffer-message', and vice versa. Neither should be hard-code coupled with logging. And each should be able to log, as well as have its minibuffer UI effect. The effects of the two functions should be totally _independent_. (And yes, Juri's recent changes that act against this independence are a real step _backward_. I argued this in vain in that context. Too bad.)