From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#74382: `compile-first` Make rule is no longer using `load-prefer-newer` Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2024 19:46:25 +0300 Message-ID: References: <6bc3a410f0857c3e3433070ac19deaf7eae88c63.camel@yandex.ru> <31dfd7d1c1c19d3fff5609b86ce85c1533a84af0.camel@yandex.ru> <861pz9x45w.fsf@gnu.org> <86zflxvoux.fsf@gnu.org> <86y11hvn5r.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36260"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.1 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, 74382@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 17 17:48:28 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tCiRn-0009Fv-Ct for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 17:48:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tCiRR-0006pA-Lr; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 11:48:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tCiRP-0006or-7V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 11:48:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tCiRO-0000Gb-VR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 11:48:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Date:From:To:Subject; bh=mDuOW347I2gZVktve1PFcc7rB2nk+WTcn5k1iNqg1V4=; b=gtPVz7pN1ZaHYCGOjesx40rEntGrhjlrBuG9d4Q2BhJXKslFQhWbNUaUE6HIhk3JVaZnnKAgKcDLJ7iHx/FqVFSP6JIOyMKcRkl16Qip3yZ73pOHktLz4Xe9qNmFzolyIMIK92iLIdsMvUx1HLWJ89sSLiHcMJZp3q8Ru6/XaWFfVx5m5DReS7tNd38bxZGHRY6UvyTCzENi1hs6TXgiUxV66I9nMGulJ2/5YchDfJxEiNDiMVwaPT18WVx1d2X7j2SE1yiuqVbpsqrSp1Pry/OfFDFtUKNZDLhRs0Y0wBZKpUkDch/2lfvHpqHJDu7kGvLhk6cJ+WAveXieEeDDuQ==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tCiRO-0003CO-EG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 11:48:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2024 16:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 74382 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 74382-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B74382.173186202512207 (code B ref 74382); Sun, 17 Nov 2024 16:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 74382) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2024 16:47:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58308 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tCiQT-0003Ao-5p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 11:47:05 -0500 Original-Received: from forward500a.mail.yandex.net ([178.154.239.80]:42062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tCiQR-0003AF-FM for 74382@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 11:47:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-81.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-81.vla.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c15:339a:0:640:a002:0]) by forward500a.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id 6F26060EE1; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 19:46:27 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-81.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id PkSIoYXOc0U0-u0tuJadN; Sun, 17 Nov 2024 19:46:26 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1731861987; bh=mDuOW347I2gZVktve1PFcc7rB2nk+WTcn5k1iNqg1V4=; h=References:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID; b=gaTe8UNCUsXA+x/HgY1aW9i+U0NniYqNShsBlNL6g96NL31PmcTWXaAwE6m+FoJjP GYlV9+yWmqIzglZl1+nXxxYMEQ7ztEdDXRPm5e3dAethx2zQAuAZoTkowzw013WqU+ YkR6/mAhtJh0CBbUjfnEz0sHmga2qzgp6LIwqpGw= Authentication-Results: mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-81.vla.yp-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru In-Reply-To: <86y11hvn5r.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:295545 Archived-At: On Sun, 2024-11-17 at 18:29 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > > Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, 74382@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2024 19:04:42 +0300 > >=20 > > On Sun, 2024-11-17 at 17:53 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > No, Emacs release tarballs come with *.elc files, and users > > > shouldn't > > > recompile them.=C2=A0 For starters, it makes the build significantly > > > longer, besides being unnecessary. > > >=20 > > > Recompiling *.elc files is only needed if the corresponding *.el > > > files > > > are modified, something that doesn't normally happen when you > > > build a > > > release tarball. > >=20 > > Okay. So, how about a compromise here: provide release tarball with > > modified Makefiles which upon calling `make clean` would not remove > > `.elc` files =E2=80=94 but let `make clean` inside git-repository remov= e > > elc > > files? >=20 > We already have a special target for that: maintainer-clean.=C2=A0 There'= s > no need to make such confusing differences between what "make clean" > does in a tarball and in Git.=C2=A0 That's a standard GNU target, so it > should do what the GNU Coding Standards say, and do it consistently. GNU Coding Standard section for `make clean` says, quoting: > Delete all files [=E2=80=A6] that are normally created by building the program. However, don=E2=80=99t delete the files that record the configurat= ion. Also preserve files that could be made by building, but normally aren=E2=80= =99t because the distribution comes with them. The "git distribution" doesn't come with .elc files, hence .elc files should be removed by `make clean` if run in the git repository. That's what the standard says. > Removing all the *.elc files (and a few *.el files that are generated > by the build from Git) makes the build much longer, so doing so > should > be harder and rarer, not easier and more frequent. You are optimizing for the wrong people. The auditory for release tarballs are package maintainers, and they couldn't care less if `make clean` removes all artifacts or not, because: 1. Nowadays the majority don't package on their personal machines anyway and use CI, and 2. they don't typically execute `make clean`. This "don't clean elc files during `make clean`" hurts Emacs devs and contributors, while gaining nothing in return. > > Users expect `make clean` to remove non-config-related bulid > > artifacts. > > Which includes `.elc` files. I can't count how many times I was > > forgetting about this peculiarity of Emacs build system, and after > > finding out that even `make clean` doesn't help with build errors > > (due > > to COMPILE_FIRST files stuff), I had to nuke everything with `git > > clean > > -fdx`. Even Gerd in this discussion forgot about this peculiarity =E2= =80=94 > > and > > Gerd unlike me is a regular Emacs developer. >=20 > You will have to get used to this curiosity of the Emacs build > system, > sorry.=C2=A0 The main audience of the build stuff in Git is Emacs > developers, so everyone else have to adapt. I don't think Emacs developers are using release tarballs, so this "curiosity" isn't helping them.