From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87y591eug5.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1374335288 8505 80.91.229.3 (20 Jul 2013 15:48:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:48:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 14914@debbugs.gnu.org To: Jambunathan K , Leo Liu Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 20 17:48:08 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZOC-0007CE-6m for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 17:48:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37689 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZOB-0003BF-TR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:48:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50842) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZO8-0003B5-Gk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:48:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZO6-00057N-QS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:48:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:45403) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZO6-00057I-Ng for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZO6-0007pr-5t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:48:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14914 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14914-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14914.137433522829988 (code B ref 14914); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14914) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2013 15:47:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZND-0007nc-C6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:47:07 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:28844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V0ZNA-0007my-Kt for 14914@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:47:05 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r6KFkwb3027920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:46:58 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6KFkvEp002676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:46:57 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r6KFkvSE002863; Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:46:57 GMT In-Reply-To: <87y591eug5.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:76532 Archived-At: > [=E2=9C=93] Show details I almost suggested that too (but with title case: `Show Details'). I probably should have mentioned it. I did not because of the considerations below, but I'm glad you have brought it up now. I have no objection to that, but in that case we should perhaps do likewise for other toggles in Dired, such as `Toggle Image Thumbnails in This Buffer' (which also happens to be a bad name, IMO). Another consideration is that the use of a check box for a toggle often corresponds to an actual user option, i.e., a variable that one can customize. And in fact, I believe, that was the original sense of menu `Options', hence the name. There are notable exceptions, such as `Tool-bar' on `Options' > `Show/Hide', which do not correspond to options (and which perhaps should not be on menu `Options'?). Another consideration is perhaps that, so far, menu `Options', which is a main place where we use such check boxes, seems to be limited to global toggles, not buffer-local ones (didn't check them all though). Likewise menu `Printing', which is another place where we use the check boxes heavily. However, Dired menu `Immediate' does have the buffer-specific `Toggle Image Thumbnails in This Buffer'. I don't know what the general policy/guideline is, if there is one, wrt the use of check boxes. Should they be limited to user options? Should they be limited to behavior that is global and not buffer-specific? Dunno. Should we perhaps have a visual convention that makes clear whether a particular toggle (a) is global or local and (b) corresponds to an option or not? Without that, users need to use `C-h k' or mouseover :help to get more info about an item, and unfortunately such info does not always answer the question because it was written in a context where the answer was clear enough without being explicit. In sum, I would be OK with a `Show Details' check box on the Dired `Immediate' menu, provided those who set the guidelines ;-) think it fits wrt the above considerations (i.e., that it is OK that it is for a minor mode, with no associated user option, and that it is OK that it is buffer-local). I agree that having a check box makes clear that the item is a toggle. That is a decided advantage, making for quicker locating and identifying. My only hesitation is the lack of clarity for users wrt whether the toggle is for a customizable variable and whether it is buffer-local or global. Thanks again for bringing up the check-box question in this context.