From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Urban Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35885: 25.2; Few mistakes in Emacs Manual (+ proposals) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:48:50 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83k1e2tym6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="227944"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 Cc: 35885@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 04 12:50:13 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hY71A-000x8p-OJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 12:50:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50269 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hY719-0004UL-Le for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:50:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40242) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hY712-0004UG-U2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:50:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hY711-0008Jv-5Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:50:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:58680) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hY710-0008Iy-8F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hY710-00040v-47 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:50:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Sebastian Urban Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 10:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35885 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 35885-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35885.155964534315354 (code B ref 35885); Tue, 04 Jun 2019 10:50:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35885) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jun 2019 10:49:03 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43991 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hY703-0003zZ-3K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:49:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-f45.google.com ([209.85.167.45]:41261) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hY701-0003z4-6I for 35885@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:49:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-f45.google.com with SMTP id 136so4542740lfa.8 for <35885@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 03:49:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=F6KvjXW8yPemN0Iokps1OBFI40knoItPIE4IQbD2WIs=; b=UAby4X9njCQNfgsT1tG6irDOy2U7DeiHoDvhyp1FlckyK0qFo1ctzpkkxoeWO4gygA TG9y9+jr54Flq0msXHD8oZQO2NHK/JjA+nOIfhk9iSzoCExWtjzxpQOLjoXwPyt7SCnO 4PFmoQk2UZj3ZvvE7RSFvM2T2yd9Dp3E//t4cdINwZdnqy4p2OO5qWBf3kHsfMyILj3B AyPrnC7C/qCTZlgKL06nyZCuzl7v35A+TXvAP80D+/hc1t6dI4fs7EW3ct7eBsEtxmJE LlCr0oVCPagDsxt5Bw0tdu8EN09NmF3Hum0J7OlLWvoPoRqaAlX4JHvRP1NPfQbRiH8n YOjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=F6KvjXW8yPemN0Iokps1OBFI40knoItPIE4IQbD2WIs=; b=GfuIUZjpdpVQYY0RZxepLcUgGQveiCiK2/WGic3suzpHykPtNz3Lq2humOK7bQmNfu 6Xx32RMk92nsZK/0MwOapMWdY7uXt3lyCC6iEvVuZMJzBAZenLA9SNbmowm9K0XiXgjp E1i3xBaJ7gUULq0J1pOqW5yunilhO3MzkeHiP9D3CW5hD76yTrfBJofUiNYj7SI13lEM dQMGBRFgLMo5qpbwxJh0d9NMwmiS58bMKiooRsjRBzdQxhBEmVrNLBFiywGnvsD3b852 ArRWIVl3YEqkPQeZ4wGCcU8yvJCW0Qd4IMamdjVOchruYPFr2CS7UNotrC/qgd12dF7t grTA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUWgQpLc+75Sfel9WIKTehM3H8uClCEEv5Z40lYm7pKiVxbHbA4 4D7fSWVlZL1uMnaVm/VEplBj0W4e X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxfakwXeA2fwb0h17qeS9tTrha7gtjsUBITjvFp01uBGmbpHzgOLCqsZz1+76g6OU8qmrzl1g== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5b05:: with SMTP id v5mr16637250lfn.38.1559645331440; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 03:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [89.161.9.216] (ip-89-161-9-216.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.9.216]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p1sm3722188ljj.1.2019.06.04.03.48.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Jun 2019 03:48:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83k1e2tym6.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-GB X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:160100 Archived-At: Thanks for the fixes, but I don't think closing this bug was good decision. Even if we leave quotes behind (but we won't, right?), Unicode code and name pairs bug will still be there. > I believe you saw these in the Emacs 25 manual. No, my reference is version updated for 26.2, downloaded from official Emacs website with manuals. For this e-mail I also looked into HTML version. > ... checkout the current emacs-26 branch... Well after you said it, I did that - I downloaded basic.texi, display.texi, search.texi, text.texi from: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/doc/emacs?h=emacs-26 and texinfo.tex from: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/doc/misc?h=emacs-26 Unfortunately I didn't make PDF out of them, but I looked into theirs code/text. > 1. In PDF 4.1 Inserting Text: > in paragraph starting with "A few common Unicode characters can be > inserted (...)" (near word "respectively"), "left double quotation > mark" (curved) is displayed as "backslash" and "right double quotation > mark" (curved) is displayed as "straight double quotes". In INFO it > looks ok. Well for this I have no answer... In BASIC.TEXI (L119): # curved quotes @t{’}, @t{“} and @t{”}, respectively. Also, a working While @t{...} works for single quotes - both curved (#x2018 & #x2019), probably including x2 grave accent, including x2 apostrophe, including x2 making all of them curved and in typewriter shape in PDF, it fails to show LEFT (#x201c) and RIGHT (#x201d) DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK, and displays instead BACKSLASH and QUOTATION MARK (#x22). It also works for QUOTATION MARK - @t{"}. An ugly way to fix it would be @t{``} and @t{''}, but I think it's not an option. BTW This looks good in HTML version. > ALSO (addition) > > In point 1 (previous message) in the same paragraph, line below, "(...) > C-x 8 [ and inserts (...)" and curved opening quote follows, which > is good, but it has shape of normal latex text, while it should has > typewriter/verbatim shape (bolder one). In BASIC.TEXI - LINE 121: - and inserts `. To see which characters have @kbd{C-x 8} ... + and inserts @t{‘}. To see which characters have @kbd{C-x 8} ... Just like in L115. This bug is present in HTML version as well. > 2. In PDF 4.1 Inserting Text: > in paragraph starting with "In some contexts, if you type a quotation > (...)", display of quotes is messed up, quotes surrounding Nth > occurrence of "like this" should be: > - 1st - "grave accent" and "apostrophe", > - 2nd - is ok, > - 3rd - 2x "grave accent" and 2x "apostrophe", > - 4th - "left double quotation mark" (curved) and "right double > quotation mark" (curved) > Or just look into INFO, it's ok there. As for 1st occurrence in BASIC.TEXI - L149: # accent and apostrophe @t{`like this'}, it is converted to a form It could be corrected with @kbd{`}@t{like this}@kbd{'}. Looks good in HTML. As for 2nd - it also looks good in HTML. As for 3rd occurrence in BASIC.TEXI - L151: # commands. Similarly, typing a quotation @t{``like this''} using As above - @kbd{``}@t{like this}@kbd{''}... Looks bad in HTML. As for 4th occurrence, just like in first point - I don't know. Looks good in HTML. > 3. In PDF 11.19 How Text Is Displayed: > in last paragraph, first line, "left double quotation mark" (curved) > is displayed as "backslash" and "right double quotation mark" (curved) > is displayed as "straight double quotes". In INFO it looks ok. In DISPLAY.TEXI - L1560: # If the curved quotes @samp{‘}, @samp{’}, @samp{“}, and @samp{”} are Well here we have @samp{...} instead of @t{...}, which also fails to show “ and ”, displaying instead \ and " (just like @t{...}). But it looks good in HTML. > In PDF 22.5 Quotation Marks: First little bonus from TEXT.TEXI (L424-425): "The funny quoting below is to make the printed version look correct. FIXME." > In 1st paragraph, 2nd line: 1st "like this" is surrounded with single > curved quotes, while they should be single straight quotes. In TEXT.TEXI - L427: # using straight apostrophes @t{'like this'} or double-quotes @t{"like Similar to above example, @kbd{'}@t{like this}@kbd{'}. Looks good in HTML. > In 1st paragraph, 3rd&4th line: both "like this" are surrounded with > good quotes, but they have bad shape (normal text), while should be > typewriter/verbatim. In TEXT.TEXI - L429: # left and right single or double quotation marks `@t{like this}' or Switch to - @t{‘like this’} - with #x2018 & #x2019. The second "like this" is L/R double quotation marks, so again no answer. Both look bad in HTML. > In 2nd paragraph, 2nd line: there should be straight quotes > followed by their curved types, but unfortunately straight quotes are > curved as well. Also curved have bad shape (normal text), should be > typewriter/verbatim. In TEXT.TEXI - L442-443: - type characters it optionally converts @t{`} to ‘, @t{'} to ', - @t{``} to ``, and @t{''} to ''. It's possible to change the + type characters it optionally converts @kbd{`} to @t{‘}, @kbd{'} to @t{’}, + @kbd{``} to ??, and @kbd{''} to ??. It's possible to change the Of course I don't know what to put for “ and ”, so I put ?? there. Also it looks bad in HTML. > In 2nd paragraph, "value" at the end: curved quotes have bad shape > (normal text), should be typewriter/verbatim. In TEXT.TEXI - L448: # default value is @code{'(?@r{`} ?@r{'} ?@r{``} ?@r{''})}. Perhaps first two could be changed to normal @t{‘} and @t{’}. Last two - a mystery. Also it looks bad in HTML. > In 4th paragraph, 5th line: curved quotes have bad shape (normal > text), should be typewriter/verbatim. In TEXT.TEXI - L469: # @t{’}, @kbd{C-x 8 @{} for ``, and @kbd{C-x 8 @}} for ''. Again L/R double quotation mark. Also it looks bad in HTML. ==================== Now about Unicode code & name pairs. > I don't see anything wrong with the current typeface, so I left it > alone. In BASIC.TEXI - L116 we have: @code{U+2018} LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK In SEARCH.TEXI - L1313-1314 and L1319-1320 we have: @sc{u+249c parenthesized latin small letter a} @sc{u+2100 account of} @sc{u+fb00 latin small ligature ff} In TEXT.TEXI - L430 (inside footnote) we have: U+2018 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK U+2018 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK <--- this has wrong code! U+201C LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK U+201D RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK So, 3 different styles. I think @code{...} around Unicode code and uppercase "U" is a must. This is how they are displayed in many other places. Style of name - I don't know, I would pick normal uppercase, because of simplicity, but it's up to you. ==================== >> 6. In INFO 15.1.1 Basics of Incremental Search: >> - ‘ ’ (‘isearch-cancel’) or ‘C-g C-g’ (‘isearch-abort’). >> + ‘ ’ (‘isearch-cancel’) or ‘C-g’ (‘isearch-abort’). >> Because `view-lossage' and `describe-bindings' and the last paragraph >> of 15.1.4 say: `C-g'. > > I left this unaltered, because in some cases you do need to type C-g > twice, so doing it twice always is safer. Well I think the last paragraph of 15.1.4 pointed by me explains this behaviour. It exactly says that sometimes C-g needs to be typed twice to exit search. That's why I'm sticking to my version, unless you had other cases in mind. And "isearch-abort" is literally binded to "C-g" so it may rise questions.