From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <20170605162737.GA30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170605203753.GB30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170607191344.GB2430@acm.fritz.box> <20170608173400.GA2662@acm.fritz.box> <20170609194141.GA3410@acm.fritz.box> <20170609203820.GB3410@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497042375 4299 195.159.176.226 (9 Jun 2017 21:06:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 21:06:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Paul Eggert , 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 09 23:06:11 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR6g-0000t9-Qr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 23:06:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56373 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR6m-0007X1-2S for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:06:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49649) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR6b-0007V7-Tv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:06:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR6Y-00007O-OD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:06:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:34793) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR6Y-00006Z-JZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:06:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR6Y-0001BU-5k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:06:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 21:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.14970423274507 (code B ref 23425); Fri, 09 Jun 2017 21:06:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2017 21:05:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37470 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR5y-0001Ac-Ni for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:05:26 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:40891) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJR5w-0001AP-GB for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:05:25 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v59L594N005504 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Jun 2017 21:05:09 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v59L59ZN006556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Jun 2017 21:05:09 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v59L58pI026647; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 21:05:08 GMT In-Reply-To: <20170609203820.GB3410@acm.fritz.box> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6767.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:133422 Archived-At: > That this advice, applied to message in Emacs <26, would strip the % > from %` and %' in format strings. So that, for example, the format > string "%`%s%'" would get converted to "`%s'" for older Emacsen. I suppose it's better than nothing. But I prefer to continue to ask that Emacs come to its senses about this whole quote-beautification exercise. > > A user, including a Lisp user, should be able to write ' or ` and > > get what s?he writes. No behind-the-scenes application of makeup. > > No prettying-up at all - you write ' and you get '. Simple. Clear. > > Lovely. Useful. No need for high-heels. >=20 > I agree with you completely, which is why I am proposing this amendment. You're accepting being automatically dressed up in high-heels, but you're proposing a set of overshoes that you can slip on over them, to cancel their effect. I'm still asking that we reverse course on the high-heels masquerade. It was misguided, and it seems quite unemacsy, to me. > > Sorry, but I cannot be in favor of this proposal, as I understand > > it so far. >=20 > That puzzles me, since we seem to agree about everything else on this > issue. See above. It may be better than nothing, but I'm still hoping that Emacs will come to its senses about this. > > It's fine to provide easy ways to _allow_ for different kinds of > > quote translation. But quote chars (including but not limited to > > ` and ') should NOT be translated by default. >=20 > This is what I am proposing: a ` or ' in the format string should stand > for itself, like any other character bar %. I agree with that, of course. It was a mistake to silently, and by default, make `message' handle other chars specially. > %` would get translated either to itself or a curly quote, > depending on the user's settings. User settings or code settings or both? Libraries need to be able to control the behavior by code. And users need to be able to control it too. (And conflicts need to be resolved.) So far, I intend to just bind `text-quoting-style' around code I'm interested in giving sane behavior. (But I'm not against having an advice that does essentially that for `format'.) > > By default, chars should be respected for what they are. Emacs > > should not substitute other chars just because someone working > > on Emacs development considered the substitute chars prettier > > or more modern. That's nuts. One overly zealous coder wreaked > > havoc, and we'll be wrestling with the result for a long time. >=20 > I agree with you. In message format strings, % should be _the_ special > character. We need one. We don't need more than one. And we should not have more than one. Note that with `text-quoting-style' we already have a way to reach inside `format' etc. and change the behavior. But I'm not against that - the scope can be controlled.