From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="257656"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 1111@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas , xah lee Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 08 17:49:15 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hvkfC-0014oI-TA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Thu, 08 Aug 2019 15:47:51 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x78Fbje0112912; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:47:50 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u7579auty-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 15:47:50 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x78FlkwT018560; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:47:46 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9342 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080150 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9342 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080150 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:164771 Archived-At: > > When doing a describe-key on C-, emacs prints > backspace> instead. Similar for any other special key whose macro > > notation are bracketed by angle brackets. e.g. , , > > , , etc. Where, emacs puts the entire thing inside > > angle brackets instead of the more traditional of modifier > > followed by dash followed by key name. > > > > Although these are identical as far as kbd function is concerned, > > but wouldn't it be more intuitively consistent by using C- > > instead of ? >=20 > Would anyone else want to weigh in on this old wishlist item? Is this > a good idea, even if it is very minor, or should we close this as > wontfix? >=20 > FWIW, I personally don't mind either way. Dunno whether this is really weighing in, but... I've said before (not in this thread, most likely) that I think that the Emacs manuals should use the exact same notation that Emacs itself uses interactively. That means the manuals should use , not C-. But they don't. As for "the more traditional": we shouldn't care. (I don't.) Emacs should do what is best for Emacs. The consistency we should look for is local, i.e., within Emacs. Eli has defended the use of the C- notation in the manuals, so so be it: we'll continue to live with that inconsistency (relatively minor) in how Emacs talks about itself. But at least interactively we should remain consistent. And there can be arguments in favor of the notation, even beyond the obvious one that Emacs has long, long used it, so that there is now no doubt code that expects and depends on it. My vote is not to change from to C-. (And my vote would be to always use the former, even in the manuals.) --- FWIW, I've also argued that we do not need angle-bracket notation at all. We can drop it and still be completely unambiguous and consistent. (I proposed this long ago, but it was rejected.) IOW, instead of `C-x M-' we can use just `C-x M-delete' - always. I even have a library, `naked.el', that lets you optionally get the angle-bracket-less notation, except for places I can't control(e.g. C code): https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/NaKeD