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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: tino.calancha@gmail.com, 21391@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#21391: 24.5; `thing-at-point' should return a string
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 02:04:20 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <cc2e7eab-e58d-db76-b5ed-0ec9871fad9d@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83inrygggr.fsf@gnu.org>

On 08.11.2016 17:05, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> But then somehow the discussion shifted to be about whether to _force_
> thing-at-point value to be a string, even if it isn't for some reason.

I'd suggest trying to fix that from the other end, as one alternative. 
If we agree that the return value of thing-at-point should be a string, 
(get 'number 'thing-at-point) can't return `number-at-point', it should 
return a function that will return the said number as a string.

And of all things enumerated in thing-at-point's docstring, IIUC only 
number has such problem. Which leaves third-party things, but, they will 
either need to be fixed, or people will have to remain content not to 
use thing-at-point with NO-PROPERTIES argument on them.

> I don't understand the rationale for such a change.  Yes,
> thing-at-point was most probably always meant to return a string.
> Yes, Lisp code that causes it to return some other object is probably
> wrong.  However, the change that allowed this was introduced 19 years
> ago; who knows what code out there actually uses this loophole?

I can't imagine that loophole to be too useful. The proposal above 
should leave all such uses of third-party things alone. But yes, anyone 
who uses (thing-at-point 'number) as a (longer, pointless) substitute 
for (number-at-point) will have to change their code.

> If
> there is such code, why would we want to break it?  To what end?  And
> if no code uses this loophole, why do we care that it exists?

To make thing-at-point behavior more consistent. This kind of thing is 
usually performed with future new uses in mind. But it also might help 
with code maintenance a bit, for existing users (not likely to make much 
of a difference, but still; the danger of breakage is not very 
significant either).

> IOW, thing-at-point no longer has any known bugs, and we are talking
> about forcibly breaking a use case that does no harm to us, and can
> only happen if someone abuses the 'thing-at-point' property, which
> would make it that someone's bug/misfeature, for them to fix.

Yes. The fix is very easy, though, for projects that retain at least 
somewhat active maintainer.





  reply	other threads:[~2016-11-09  0:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-01  1:59 bug#21391: 24.5; `thing-at-point' returns error when called with arguments 'number t Tino Calancha
2015-09-05  8:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-13  7:00 ` bug#21391: 24.5; `thing-at-point' returns error when called with arguments 'number t) Tino Calancha
2016-11-04 16:31   ` Drew Adams
2016-11-04 18:31     ` Andreas Röhler
2016-11-04 19:27       ` Drew Adams
2016-11-04 20:21         ` Drew Adams
2016-11-07  9:30           ` Andreas Röhler
2016-11-07 15:00             ` Drew Adams
2016-11-07 15:01             ` Drew Adams
2016-11-04 20:03     ` Drew Adams
2016-11-07  3:17       ` bug#21391: 24.5; `thing-at-point' should return a string Tino Calancha
2016-11-07 15:14         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-07 19:12           ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-07 19:47             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-07 19:51               ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-07 20:02                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-07 20:03                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-08 13:15                     ` Tino Calancha
2016-11-08 15:05                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-09  0:04                       ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2016-11-09  6:43                         ` Andreas Röhler
2016-11-09 15:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-09 23:30                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-10 16:08                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-10 16:19                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-10 17:13                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-10 17:28                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-10 18:49                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-10 18:55                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-10 19:59                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-10 21:12                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-11 10:07                                             ` Tino Calancha
2016-11-11 10:57                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-11 14:13                                                 ` Tino Calancha
2016-11-11 14:35                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-11 14:46                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-11 14:51                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-11 14:57                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-11 15:31                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-11 15:05                                                         ` Tino Calancha
2016-11-11 15:37                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-14  1:52                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-14  2:43                                                               ` Drew Adams
2016-11-14 10:26                                                                 ` Andreas Röhler
2016-11-14 15:19                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-11-16 13:49                                                                     ` Andreas Röhler
2016-11-16 14:45                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2016-11-14 15:36                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-15  7:18                                                                     ` Andreas Röhler
2016-11-14 15:34                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-10 18:27                                 ` Drew Adams
2016-11-09 17:58                         ` Drew Adams
2016-11-09 23:35                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-11-10  0:40                             ` Drew Adams
2016-11-10  8:55                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-08-24 18:32                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
     [not found]                     ` <<83inrygggr.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-11-08 16:31                       ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                       ` <<cc2e7eab-e58d-db76-b5ed-0ec9871fad9d@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                         ` <<83y40sfyij.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <<76505436-e66c-0ed3-6d7a-ce654f38ef30@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                             ` <<83bmxnfhbi.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                               ` <<73600483-1df5-597c-6066-232189bbdd4a@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                 ` <<834m3ffeb9.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                   ` <<fcb1bcf1-20f0-3eda-1c33-df7ba085d487@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                     ` <<83twbfdvav.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                       ` <<73be4b9d-2df8-cc83-b873-398cb7dd043b@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                         ` <<83pom3ds3e.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                           ` <<ef67e387-0302-1aaa-4764-cab2d3337a2c@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                             ` <<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611111851250.21428@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                               ` <<83bmxme12w.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                 ` <<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611112313020.23900@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                                   ` <<834m3edqyr.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                     ` <<6dbea00c-3bde-6ec3-b109-7aa205bedb5f@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                                       ` <<8337iydq8z.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                         ` <<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611112355090.24203@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                                           ` <<83y40qc9jv.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                             ` <<df484e47-dbd7-06d5-5987-a067185d3e00@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                                               ` <<bd8f220e-6ac2-4996-91ed-7bcf4cc5413f@default>
     [not found]                                                                 ` <<83a8d2hy8f.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-11-14 16:24                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-11-14 16:44                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-08  8:22                   ` Andreas Röhler
     [not found]       ` <<874m3krnb6.fsf_-_@gmail.com>
     [not found]         ` <<83a8dbiaps.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-11-07 16:10           ` Drew Adams
2016-11-07 18:04             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-07 17:22       ` bug#21391: 24.5; `thing-at-point' returns error when called with arguments 'number t) Andreas Röhler
2016-11-07 17:37         ` Drew Adams
2016-11-08  8:43           ` Andreas Röhler
2016-11-08 16:31             ` Drew Adams
     [not found]       ` <<<874m3krnb6.fsf_-_@gmail.com>
     [not found]         ` <<<83a8dbiaps.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<123efdfd-3a87-4b39-9567-a56ecc3ea82e@default>
     [not found]             ` <<831syni2u1.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-11-07 18:37               ` bug#21391: 24.5; `thing-at-point' should return a string Drew Adams
     [not found] <<<<alpine.LRH.2.20.1509011056480.5317@calancha-ilc.kek.jp>
     [not found] ` <<<<83pom7gjhl.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <<<<0a8d76e4-4d1b-a26d-2b76-a2d9384d9f72@yandex.ru>
     [not found]     ` <<<<83mvhbgitf.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <<<<25bb22e8-1388-275a-d0da-7e698acdf6da@yandex.ru>
     [not found]         ` <<<<83inrygggr.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<<<cc2e7eab-e58d-db76-b5ed-0ec9871fad9d@yandex.ru>
     [not found]             ` <<<<83y40sfyij.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<<<76505436-e66c-0ed3-6d7a-ce654f38ef30@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                 ` <<<<83bmxnfhbi.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<<<73600483-1df5-597c-6066-232189bbdd4a@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                     ` <<<<834m3ffeb9.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<<<fcb1bcf1-20f0-3eda-1c33-df7ba085d487@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                         ` <<<<83twbfdvav.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <<<<73be4b9d-2df8-cc83-b873-398cb7dd043b@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                             ` <<<<83pom3ds3e.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                               ` <<<<ef67e387-0302-1aaa-4764-cab2d3337a2c@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                 ` <<<<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611111851250.21428@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                   ` <<<<83bmxme12w.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                     ` <<<<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611112313020.23900@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                       ` <<<<834m3edqyr.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                         ` <<<<6dbea00c-3bde-6ec3-b109-7aa205bedb5f@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                           ` <<<<8337iydq8z.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                             ` <<<<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611112355090.24203@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                               ` <<<<83y40qc9jv.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                 ` <<<<df484e47-dbd7-06d5-5987-a067185d3e00@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                                   ` <<<<bd8f220e-6ac2-4996-91ed-7bcf4cc5413f@default>
     [not found]                                                     ` <<<<83a8d2hy8f.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                       ` <<<5a6ddd21-ebf9-42bf-9fb6-7fc9e037b3ed@default>
     [not found]                                                         ` <<<83zil2ggf7.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                           ` <<fe942899-b2b4-4add-9f80-87ddf53bc680@default>
     [not found]                                                             ` <<83wpg6gc8h.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-11-14 18:54                                                               ` Drew Adams
     [not found] <<<alpine.LRH.2.20.1509011056480.5317@calancha-ilc.kek.jp>
     [not found] ` <<<83pom7gjhl.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <<<0a8d76e4-4d1b-a26d-2b76-a2d9384d9f72@yandex.ru>
     [not found]     ` <<<83mvhbgitf.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <<<25bb22e8-1388-275a-d0da-7e698acdf6da@yandex.ru>
     [not found]         ` <<<83inrygggr.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<<cc2e7eab-e58d-db76-b5ed-0ec9871fad9d@yandex.ru>
     [not found]             ` <<<83y40sfyij.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<<76505436-e66c-0ed3-6d7a-ce654f38ef30@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                 ` <<<83bmxnfhbi.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<<73600483-1df5-597c-6066-232189bbdd4a@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                     ` <<<834m3ffeb9.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<<fcb1bcf1-20f0-3eda-1c33-df7ba085d487@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                         ` <<<83twbfdvav.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <<<73be4b9d-2df8-cc83-b873-398cb7dd043b@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                             ` <<<83pom3ds3e.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                               ` <<<ef67e387-0302-1aaa-4764-cab2d3337a2c@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                 ` <<<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611111851250.21428@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                   ` <<<83bmxme12w.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                     ` <<<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611112313020.23900@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                       ` <<<834m3edqyr.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                         ` <<<6dbea00c-3bde-6ec3-b109-7aa205bedb5f@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                           ` <<<8337iydq8z.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                             ` <<<alpine.DEB.2.20.1611112355090.24203@calancha-pc>
     [not found]                                               ` <<<83y40qc9jv.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                 ` <<<df484e47-dbd7-06d5-5987-a067185d3e00@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                                                   ` <<<bd8f220e-6ac2-4996-91ed-7bcf4cc5413f@default>
     [not found]                                                     ` <<<83a8d2hy8f.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                       ` <<5a6ddd21-ebf9-42bf-9fb6-7fc9e037b3ed@default>
     [not found]                                                         ` <<83zil2ggf7.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-11-14 17:33                                                           ` Drew Adams
2016-11-14 18:14                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <<alpine.LRH.2.20.1509011056480.5317@calancha-ilc.kek.jp>
     [not found] ` <<83pom7gjhl.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <<0a8d76e4-4d1b-a26d-2b76-a2d9384d9f72@yandex.ru>
     [not found]     ` <<83mvhbgitf.fsf@gnu.org>

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