From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#43609: 28.0.50; eldoc-documentation-function [vs new eldoc-display-functions] Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:39:43 +0100 Message-ID: References: <2e610c3f-6e5f-c7dd-af2e-aeb5e20d8664@gmx.at> <87r1qjjppu.fsf@gmail.com> <3fa6b315-7fc0-06ee-81e9-b68d164aec1b@gmx.at> <87a6x7jf9a.fsf@gmail.com> <874knbi0jc.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87362tggvl.fsf@gmail.com> <87d01vem7z.fsf@gmail.com> <17da3e99-d4fc-a603-baa3-4180d612af41@gmx.at> <878scie5ti.fsf@gmail.com> <87tuujr6sd.fsf@gmail.com> <803c87c2-7d60-5997-2247-85d3e62e3d2c@gmx.at> <87a6w7puuz.fsf@gmail.com> <64831acc-996e-51d7-ce6f-b667a6334e3c@gmx.at> <87imavo322.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35459"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, Yuan Fu , 43609@debbugs.gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 28 09:41:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kXh0x-00096V-Id for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:39:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87imavo322.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:XkyrzvBiHgB68312m7LuwaNrBcVBqjvz5rwUimytv1tf9VvPLqN DK7lCqyiI8cYZ+Ip7PJ5YFweDPWNs5M8fVaAGCLVQ4XfciVj2kv1anYcOGO1QTvh0uPf6Yn MsG8eBLmEWrWvfp3zXSWvN1vU7tuJNRY+2wKsCw/JR28Gecm1mHcmHYFdRmzMV4AW4zeGYz Zf5I+MfGpDc//9Jhhtjig== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zeYgXlVGYKc=:89cm3qAKyyMUdT2MOBc/I5 BjE7CfQviIY7hPgUE4uJPn6ieN4AHevU6zZcDJ1SYfTJknp4Mf+8A0FV1/wB+Hi4gsmjKd8YU nGtfIJ6FrI6AwxYdFPXBmolVnUXIJ6TWKe3J/gBChkC2xOGeGaoGhQ7VRiv7gXHDPKK4r6nLM mp+27uelyMkiO7qqJM5KzvPW2goa+yOM1CFeq1cfkxXlZXBqSADCeN5NeU88vsUXA1UufS2kY 5jm0hh2F6K5Z5d/s5ZGmYQ2Yy/uBP48RmyVEdUHf8myf/7MPCFbuWEpmjI2p4vSO2087DySyo e9nRMtA+axzNQjtP/IXRhlzgKDUqcPN9ZU2J20ZV/Nrlwbxj+Ldz+oWFV3JYr5lVTnW2pNku6 5cCws+/t1WvW0ZKE6E357I7Bb2e60VzKoAZkIJSGAAAlr+VPhr/+Zw0iz6Uui12m2i2M+jlwY Tzn0b7qXGa406Q6ooZVecJVC0ipcfXlZNDJlC4kIV3SeXf+lQhREgHzQYQXRWqf+mkfLBwddX efD/R+TMIXnbGUXXIRpI17zfbLUu5ktTJcF95EHIFJNdblMFh68BdYVwPeDlu1dye0FzL9+C1 e9cWHhiN3CYjty1sdQ7gT8+T/3QBuOStul315lfESlsRz1B30M/F0jOd+L3D7hQ8UxpVFWDrm kYlHUDtmLq9SMPptOILMR7/Eu8lYYnU1juahpGrpqa361AhXfnEgn4z+1ekGbNQOWmLZg5Vyt 5GGExBG82i7HK36QiO8S9f95Kix5fNlLL2FbWX7Biub9nYD1RlAH3VCmWBALQIUpF9Dncbac X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:191823 Archived-At: > I'm not sure I follow 100%, I'm just thinking that whatever process yo= u > use to update Emacs in those machines It's git pull nowadays and used to be some cvs or bzr command in the old days. > you can also use to update > eldoc-tooltip.el. You're right that I probably should write some sort of script but the process is highly individual depending on the state of the machine that crashed, the state of the disk I'm recovering from and the state of the machine I'm moving too. Restoring a crashed XP partition, for example, is a pain these days since I cannot connect to XP from newer Debians via the network. >> =E2=80=98eldoc-documentation-function=E2=80=99 >> This variable holds the function which is used to retrieve >> documentation for the item at point from the functions in the h= ook >> =E2=80=98eldoc-documentation-functions=E2=80=99. By default, >> =E2=80=98eldoc-documentation-function=E2=80=99 returns the firs= t documentation >> string produced by the =E2=80=98eldoc-documentation-functions=E2= =80=99 hook. > > And these things are true, still today, as far as I know. What I meant= > is that the link between eldoc-documentation-function and > eldoc-documentation-functions was already established. You were argui= ng > for some conceptual separation between these two variables and I noted= > that they were already interconnected. But how can I get that default mentioned in "By default, =E2=80=98eldoc-documentation-function=E2=80=99 returns the first document= ation string produced by the =E2=80=98eldoc-documentation-functions=E2=80=99 hook."? > But there's still something I don't understand: in your original > martin-tooltip.el library you didn't call this e-e-d-f function, did > you? AFAIU, you did: > > (funcall eldoc-documentation-function) > > or am I mistaken? You're not mistaken. My expectation was and would be that in elisp mode 'eldoc-documentation-function' returned the value produced by 'elisp-eldoc-documentation-function' and IIUC that can't be done any more because it would break you compatibility code for that variable. > So you'd have to change your code anyway to now call > elisp-eldoc-documentation-function, right? So, if you're going to > change it, why not change it to the new, better alternatives I have > presented? Because at the time I'm there I have other concerns than remember how I did that. > Regardless, here's my take on '--': The presence of '--' clearly > specifies something to be an internal implementation detail. But that'= s > not the same as taking the absence of '--' as a sign that something is= > an "external" function. The '--' convention is relatively recent, and= > programmers had been using internal details before the convention > existed. This was one of them. The absence of "--" is a sign that neither semantics nor signature of that function, primitive, variable or macro should ever change unless explicitly marked as obsoleted (for some time) or as an incompatible change (which inherently means that there was some force majeure that caused us to do that). For example, in the fix of Bug#44080 Clemens preserved the old behavior of 'fit-frame-to-buffer' and provided the now desired behavior by introducing a new function 'fit-frame-to-buffer-1' that now becomes the default value called by 'resize-mini-frames'. While this is clumsy and changes the default behavior of Emacs by calling another function when the size of the minibuffer changes, it both (1) guarantees that 'fit-frame-to-buffer' behaves right as before and (2) allows to get the previous, now undesired, behavior triggered by minibuffer size changes by customizing 'resize-mini-frames' to 'fit-frame-to-buffer'. With your changes, I cannot simply customize a variable to get the old behavior back. I have to do some extra coding somewhere. > But isn't the problem that you've somehow built or placed a new versio= n > of Emacs in those drives/servers/hosts where an incompatible > martin-tooltip.el lives? I just don't understand why updating an Emac= s > executable is somehow feasible in that setup but updating an Elisp > library that it depends on isn't. Because I expect Emacs to be backward-compatible (.elc included). > I'm again confused: If you contribute your code to Emacs, then wheneve= r > you update Emacs (which seems to be what you're concerned about) the > facilities you need will just be there. But my .emacs won't know. > As promised, a patch for you to review (and maybe Lars as well?) Thank you. If it also provided an option so the only thing I'd have to do is to customize that, things would become for me as simple as the present situation permits, I think. martin