From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: nipponpost@airmail.cc Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38002: Please remove this joke Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 15:24:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <86bltxng32.fsf@inmotica-integral.es> <87k18k7ugd.fsf@gnus.org> <3th83oen14.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="118558"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.6 Cc: bug-gnu-emacs , 38002@debbugs.gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 01 17:03:29 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZOa-000UjH-Ec for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:03:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40722 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZOY-0007mq-UM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:03:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56698) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZLL-0005ZI-2b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:00:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZLI-0000cU-JX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:00:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:48041) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZLI-0000Wt-24 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:00:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZLG-0000cx-Su for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:00:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: nipponpost@airmail.cc Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 16:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38002 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch fixed Original-Received: via spool by 38002-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38002.15726239702340 (code B ref 38002); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 16:00:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 38002) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2019 15:59:30 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56862 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZKj-0000bf-EZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:59:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.cock.li ([185.10.68.5]:49193 helo=cock.li) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQYmx-000861-2w for 38002@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:24:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=airmail.cc; s=mail; t=1572621867; bh=URS6KiwyrZzXHSdXnQOmSHcJK5Qwf/F/oPh72XVJduI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=zUFlBr4GU4hZtahSFZt0h2LaqFe6WE0hSXYJcU5WsWvhH1VFezWPptmNPrzK88rAv PYhf3syP/TMFOXefmd1Q+Rk/hilp17EEKIhgui752cNCqGLEE/pN+/0HT2//wf+wuU BdLkBJmsAYLe6kt0RurLR+4Lm6k/42s88MCDgyt77oGXzGBSbvBXisQ8n2n0sQ7K8q gDPuL5Tl5NZb5KQtj9zmAWpxm4ohYfD8CnGKCX8Z0LdBs9TGuBOlQ5VQeV8lPP4EoO ZCJzHzL7Shqdi3sNF6tnh80LXLCX4gtb65vqegvFCPvdPtUMPnm8WFr+ydjIgn9BuF Gyi4papwe5EtA== In-Reply-To: X-Sender: nipponpost@airmail.cc X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:59:26 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:170618 Archived-At: Deleting any jokes (including the one you're acquiescent to removal), after accepting the persons work (the code that came along with the joke) is extremely disrespectful to the person who did the programming work along-side it. (And I mean /that/ person, including a time-period element (people change, sadly, they're always better when they're younger: when they're old they simply give up and obey).) It is like tearing their essence out of the program, their joys, their perspective. It is treating them as a mule. Just like proprietary companies threat their programming m[a|u]les. It also erases the history of the program, the men behind it, their time-period. With the joke and all the rest you can remenice and remember /THAT/ time and even the day when the commit was added, and interacting with the person. This is like kicking over their gravestone and is /effectivly/ deleting them from the history of the program (the Authors list does /not/ give you context regarding who they were: just gives their names, which is useless, especially since everyone uses the same handful of first names, and the last names aren't too varied either (usually it's just a job title from their family's past peasant or mercantile work)). Let me suggest this: When it came time to have family names, the losely Confederated central-european states gave some people cruel jokes of a family name: "gold water" (piss water) etc. They kept the names anyway when they came to America and could change them. Yet you can't keep the joke because a woman is offended? The women are /more important/ than the /men/ who /actually/ helped you guys? EMACS is old, like many of you are now. Would you like your history erased because a woman was offended? Also: in the USA after 35 years an author, or his estate, can recover his copyrights on whatever works he produced, regardless of who he assigned the copyright to, within a window of time. If I were one of the men who's jokes were being removed I would do exactly that (these sound like 1980s jokes... even 1970s ones). Then when the code was reimplemented I would sue for contributory copyright infringement. That's just me though. Then you would have to make the real choices: US Copyright Law OR Free Software as your basic creed. Men OR Women as your programmers. I will tell you: while you grasp at women and obey their speech codes, and bend us to /their/ will: you lose the flock of gulls in your hand. If we liked them we would not waste our lives programming: we would chase the women. There is a reason we have the time to do the free software programing and media creation. The fact is we tacitly reject them because they are tyrants (they would say they rejected us: just as they attacked you, RMS, in the past saying you would "never get laid" when you asked them to stop sending birth announcements to the list), slave drivers, and banned everything we /actually/ wanted (marrying /girls/ not /women/). They demand a joke written by a programmer be removed from the program. What do they offer? Nothing. They offer nothing in payment for the erasure of the man's mark. They certainly offer nothing to said man. I know, in the end, it's your program, RMS (and the other original programmers of emacs in the 70s, you being one of them, this being a continuation-in-kind, grown from a clone). But you accepted these men's code, and their joke. Now we watch as "maintainers" and women disrespect the programmers, and attack you (trying to oust you), and you agree with them and go along with them. So we silently walk away. What do you even gain from it? The women and their supporters had you thrown out of MIT, tossed out of the FSF, and do you have a very young bride or two that's adorable? No you don't have that either. You got nothing for it. It would be better to move the free software movement to Jordan. Even Russia would be a better option; they'll give you a pretty young woman there (not a girl though; Islam is the only one standing against Americanism on this). On 2019-11-01 14:29, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > There is nothing wrong with jokes in general, and no valid reason in > general to delete jokes in the Emacs distribution. If you think there > is something bad about a particular joke, please suggest deleting that > specific joke and give the specific reason.