From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:34:06 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83wn2h5825.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net> <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net> <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org> <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19802"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Cc: 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, Robert Pluim To: Stefan Monnier , =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 18:35:20 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMON-0004sc-D3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:35:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMOC-0004DW-JJ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:35:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMO6-0004Ai-EW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:35:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMO5-000885-WA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:35:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMO5-00034v-N4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:35:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 16:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62720 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 62720-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62720.168149005711777 (code B ref 62720); Fri, 14 Apr 2023 16:35:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 62720) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2023 16:34:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMNM-00033t-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:34:17 -0400 Original-Received: from new2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.224]:46663) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMNL-00033h-1N for 62720@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:34:15 -0400 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14EA5822C7; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:34:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t= 1681490049; x=1681493649; bh=ZE6AP2TJrkB9FZtwPtvp+OdedEOUfVOmVQg VxopIabI=; b=GQnTTtC8foIiQVEXJdfM8RINzStfop9DfmnRDxlzyZ1v5D62E1E /q7xpMrJ9xrpIb00XIkEW0mgtFC1/khOZ/uwUiass77T605VwJ9RC5bfF/X4Lkws kxQlD+8su5Up/f9W465DMI1y2vlFudKxBufMobvVh1zu1P2zXP8wD51ykTPSsvyx GmB3vIvaSNWl+CFReKR8agE1XdhahPF/76DT2qLPxzgZWkpB1gHdJu3JyQ1OapCy FHmGUUrGX9Q6Tv/8R9Ccu9aerc9kzWBtAj/vE9ry/kCRFk8MBecawNov7dgB8irA 3x/kEp90caZAAuc7J8F2osj6Pfd7P3foXzg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1681490049; x=1681493649; bh=ZE6AP2TJrkB9FZtwPtvp+OdedEOUfVOmVQg VxopIabI=; b=QxycDAN8mXMJiAy8bXSD/NZ81YTFMPCAWVYsasqyD3AqwAZsb8+ bdy8sQ1bxvEWlhHLL8+YP5pA/kOZN+0oSJvDvvwEBR8EDMc1Pv5WssSokquBI9T3 5ZGLOMCVIpH3XtIjioY7DvF/K6AA0x+jBTSydcP/JQgeX/7nmbp2Zp0tz8MRo4vj +3iUfwvdwsH/sa8VEIM8tOXf5uXJFC2iNDCMwfMLq21dTAnCDQr2FQqi29YHg9Ko iaHg0oVBVQLrREuI7c0orKc85V3tw+sQRg3/o/l3uQICuuj95EgA/cvCH1GK67A/ eSUmrWIFCzzYUc1+PmrYIfHRCMSbrpL28fg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrvdeltddguddtvdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhm ihhtrhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeeigfetveehveevffehledtueekieeikeeufeegudfgfeeghfdulefgfeev ledvveenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe gumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259939 Archived-At: On 14/04/2023 19:28, Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote: >> I would think it's too late in the game to break compatibility. >> Naming aside package-install has certain behaviour that for a certain >> set of inputs used to produce predictable things. >> Now, for the same inputs it does nothing on Emacs 29. > > The only way I can think of to preserve compatibility is to change the > behavior so it doesn't pay attention to "is builtin or not" but to "used > to be builtin before Emacs-29". This would make a bad semantics even > worse, so I'd rather we fix the semantics to something clean. We could add a new attribute/package header which would mean "eagerly upgradable [even when] built-in". >> I think it should do the same thing, not only because it's >> nicer for the unsuspecting user, but also because trying to >> protect this user from "unintentional" upgrade of certain "unstable" >> packages, as it seems to be the idea here, is a losing game >> anyway, just because dependencies. > > You may be right: maybe the distinction between "install only" and > "install&upgrade" isn't worth the trouble. > > I think to get closer to a useful "install only" behavior we'd want that > command to prompt the user before upgrading dependencies (tho probably > only for those in `package-selected-packages`). > > BTW, for me the reluctance to upgrade when asked to install isn't due to > the risk that the package is "unstable". I'm not completely sure what > is the reason, admittedly, but it's closer to viewing it as a silent > "change of distribution", That's my feeling too. > or maybe it's because I like to know when behavior may change and merely installing a package shouldn't change Emacs's behavior. This is probably a different question: whether 'M-x package-install' should do upgrades at all, whether the package is built-in or not.