bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

Go to e.g.,
(info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")

See that line at the top,
... > ... > ... >
Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
As much as you try, you will only get
File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...

One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-12-07, at 08:30, 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote:

> Go to e.g.,
> (info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")
>
> See that line at the top,
> ... > ... > ... >
> Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
> As much as you try, you will only get
> File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...
>
> One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.

I guess it's an overlay, so it is like that by design.
(Also in emacs -nw.)

Why is this a problem?

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

>>>>> "MB" == Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

MB> Why is this a problem?

Because it makes me feel like a little kid. It is sitting on my screen
but I am not allowed to copy it.

Or it makes me feel like I didn't buy the software license to copy it.

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:29:36 +0100
> Cc: 25131@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Go to e.g.,
> > (info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")
> >
> > See that line at the top,
> > ... > ... > ... >
> > Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
> > As much as you try, you will only get
> > File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...
> >
> > One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.
> 
> I guess it's an overlay, so it is like that by design.

Indeed.

We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
welcome.

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Andreas Schwab]

On Dez 07 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

>> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
>> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:29:36 +0100
>> Cc: 25131@debbugs.gnu.org
>> 
>> > Go to e.g.,
>> > (info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")
>> >
>> > See that line at the top,
>> > ... > ... > ... >
>> > Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
>> > As much as you try, you will only get
>> > File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...
>> >
>> > One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.
>> 
>> I guess it's an overlay, so it is like that by design.
>
> Indeed.
>
> We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
> welcome.

The string is available from the C-x = buffer.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE  1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7
"And now for something completely different."

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

>>>>> "AS" == Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de> writes:

AS> The string is available from the C-x = buffer.

One apparently must put the cursor on the first (the only possible)
character, hit C-x =, and then dig it out of the *Messages* buffer,
encrusted in:

Char: F (70, #o106, #x46, part of display "File..."->"(coreutils)Top > Directory listing > ls invocation > Sorting the output
") point=232756 of 849416 (27%) <232756-235061> column=0

Not very user friendly.

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de>
> Cc: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>,  jidanni@jidanni.org,  25131@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 17:25:39 +0100
> 
> > We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
> > welcome.
> 
> The string is available from the C-x = buffer.

Right.  I meant something similar to Info-copy-current-node-name.

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Drew Adams]

> > The string is available from the C-x = buffer.
> 
> One apparently must put the cursor on the first (the only possible)
> character, hit C-x =, and then dig it out of the *Messages* buffer,
> encrusted in:
> 
> Char: F (70, #o106, #x46, part of display "File..."->"(coreutils)Top >
> Directory listing > ls invocation > Sorting the output
> ") point=232756 of 849416 (27%) <232756-235061> column=0
> 
> Not very user friendly.

Indeed.  You can at least use `C-u C-x =', and then get it from the
*Help* buffer that is shown.

But this is a workaround, and it is unlikely that someone looking
to copy that text will think of it.

On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

>>>>> "DA" == Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

DA> On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
DA> just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
DA> to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.

Indeed, when I want to copy any of that \212\311\212\112\121 binary
stuff as is, I have to start again with emacs -nw!

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Drew Adams]

> > > We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
> > > welcome.
> >
> > The string is available from the C-x = buffer.
> 
> Right.  I meant something similar to Info-copy-current-node-name.

I forgot about that command.  Maybe let `C-u' just extend it
to copy the text of such breadcrumbs (whether or not the
breadcrumbs are displayed).

Kind of like a relative file name vs an absolute file name.

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 09:02:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>, 25131@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
> just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
> to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.

What would be the UI, assuming we don't want the user to have to find
out on her own that there's an overlay or a display property at some
point?

bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

[Drew Adams]

> > On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
> > just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
> > to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.
> 
> What would be the UI, assuming we don't want the user to have to find
> out on her own that there's an overlay or a display property at some
> point?

I don't know.  We can think about that possibility.

But for this bug, I think just extending the existing command that
gives you the node name, by letting a prefix arg give it to you as
a full path (breadcrumbs - in whatever textual form), would be good.

Wrt knowing whether an overlay etc. present (e.g., whether some
displayed text is copiable from the buffer or is a display artifact):
That's a general UI problem.  Perhaps when a user tries to perform
some actions (e.g. copy text) a message should tell her that the
text is just for display etc.