From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35287: dired-do-copy English beef-up Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 15:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <874l6zh4ik.2.fsf@jidanni.org> <87y3491zbd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <220330ef-516d-46b4-b8e8-c7209f7b7898@default> <87d0lktp84.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="203693"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 35287@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 18 00:54:24 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtRf-000qrQ-VV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 00:54:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60800 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtRe-0003xY-OP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:54:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45855) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtRY-0003xM-Tm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:54:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtRR-00008F-9w for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:55633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtRK-0008Te-0p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:54:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtRJ-0006za-S7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:54:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 22:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35287 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 35287-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35287.155554163326863 (code B ref 35287); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 22:54:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35287) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2019 22:53:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtR9-0006zB-Qb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:53:52 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:42998) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hGtR8-0006yz-Jb for 35287@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:53:51 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x3HMnLnE172049; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 22:53:44 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=+zae+cCfWsKNcu1VNWL8boR2TpYUCBvqSWR4mc8KuJQ=; b=EQnaOig5wloOaLRLIeQQaK49dpmuyUFB8z3YMJg69j0MkI8e5rbr4OentDRoNdt9H9fH I2T7VC7aphjmF4keB1RbnyVzq7436T3aSYkXLwpi79b6FQ+H3gifk0G9/+FO51YgPCPQ 9UMd+zO3RZTv95cv/sUTIb8brk+bZ6lCA/DuXDFZpO9hwhjd1ovtGlWsUZ7rTwiH61vg 08pjJG3W+iKhchTyaQs7ANVl0zWrfmc7AYYMOBRh0OZH4tMb3zYo2Iv82q2wbu3Pkmfv DCG35CylQ2qRluZbdoUGJyffCLRzRUnHGIIFW095r6+xXYckarD8Yw4cunrkQznU/H9l /w== Original-Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2rusnf3rxh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 22:53:44 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x3HMqaH0009215; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 22:53:44 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2rubq76vq4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 22:53:43 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x3HMrf8N021543; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 22:53:41 GMT In-Reply-To: <87d0lktp84.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4834.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9230 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904170144 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9230 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1904170144 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:157785 Archived-At: > >> > Copy: 11 files > >> > Actually "Copied 11 files" is proper English and doesn't leave us > >> > somewhat worrying... > >> > >> Other messages that use the same operation name: > >> > >> "Copy: 2 of 3 files skipped" > >> "Copy failed for 2 of 3 files" > >> > >> Shouldn't the latter be "Copying failed"? > >> So for every operation three verb forms are needed: > >> "Copy", "Copying", "Copied", correct? > > > > My own advice is to leave it alone. >=20 > This is important in light of our efforts for i18n. >=20 > > If you want, for "Copy" read "Copy operation" or > > "Operation Copy". >=20 > "Operation Copy" is a catchy name. If you want to play with this then perhaps try to keep the operation name as is (e.g. "copy") - don't conjugate it or try to make a sentence/phrase. What we have traditionally done with messages is this: Copying... Copying...done But the `dired-do-*' framework really calls always for an operation name (e.g. "copy", not "copying"). You could perhaps use this: Copy * [2 files] to: ~/foobar/ Copy: 2 files done And in case of a failure, what we have now is fine: Copy: 1 of 2 Copy =1B$B!F=1B(Bd:/foo/a.el=1B$B!G=1B(B to =1B$B!F=1B(Bd:/foo/b.el=1B$B!= G=1B(B failed: (file-already-exists File already exists d:/foo/a.el) Yes, the first line can be confusing on its own, but it's OK with the second line. And we definitely don't want to say "Copy: 1 of 2 done" - the entire attempt to copy is done, not just the attempt of one file. We could alternatively say "Copy: 1 of 2 succeeded". IOW, just add "done" or "failed" or whatever to the operation name to make clear: (1) that the operation attempt is finished and (2) what the status of the attempt is. The point is to stick with "copy". Dunno what that would mean for translation, e.g. using the (translated) operation name and trying to tack on a (translated) status word like "succeeded"/"failed". I really wouldn't mess with the `dired-do-*' framework. And I wouldn't worry too much about translation here. I do agree with Dan that the way it is now (without a "done" or "succeeded") it might be a bit confusing. But I don't think the answer is to try using "Copying" - conjugating etc. Keep it simple and standard (in the sense of what Emacs has long used). Try to fix any real ambiguity that could be harmful, but don't go beyond that. Just one opinion.