From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Barry Margolin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: Re: Variant spellings in GNU Emacs documentation Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:31:00 GMT Organization: Looking for work Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1074654644 28969 80.91.224.253 (21 Jan 2004 03:10:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:10:44 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 21 04:10:37 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Aj8lI-0000TQ-00 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 04:10:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Aj8iY-0005sE-GT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:07:46 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1Aj8iW-0005qu-0h for bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:07:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1Aj8hy-0005fn-Qo for bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:07:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [130.59.10.2] (helo=chx400.switch.ch) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1Aj4Om-0001SD-6I for bug-gnu-emacs@prep.ai.mit.edu; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:31:04 -0500 Original-Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55]) by chx400.switch.ch with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 1Aj4Ok-0004oC-00 for gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:31:02 +0100 Original-Received: from ops.asp.att.net (rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net[135.173.99.205](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004012022310101100j9q27e>; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:31:01 +0000 Original-Received: by ops.asp.att.net (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id WAA00209; Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:31:00 GMT Original-To: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org Original-Path: not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Copies-To: never Original-Lines: 39 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.34.107.202 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net Original-X-Trace: attbi_s51 1074637860 24.34.107.202 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:31:00 GMT) Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:31:00 GMT X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:6666 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bugs:6666 In article , "Eli Zaretskii" wrote: > > From: Barry Margolin > > Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug > > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:39:34 GMT > > > > I don't really have much problem with people using these derogatory > > nicknames in Usenet postings and similar media; this is an informal > > environment, and it's common to throw opinions and biases around in > > conversation. But putting them in published software documentation just > > makes us all seem unprofessional and juvenile, and hurts the whole free > > and open software movement. > > Just FYI, these names were in the manual since about forever, > certainly before I came on board of Emacs maintenance circa 1993. > Heck, even the name of the Texinfo source file for the MS-DOS appendix > to the manual is msdog.texi. > > So I think whatever juvenile and unprofessional attitude follows from > this, it's been out there for so long that nothing can now change our > image in people's eyes, and any damage it could have possibly done to > the free software movement is already done. Back in the old days, GNU software was mostly distributed within the self-contained hacker community. We all were in on the joke, and used the same jargon and nicknames amongst ourselves. The documentation was written with that target audience in mind. Like it or not, though, times have changed. *BSD and Linux are becoming mainstream software, which means that we have to expect that the documentation will be used by people not so clued in to this mindset. If we don't want to alienate the potential converts, I don't think we should perpetuate these attitudes in media intended for them. -- Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***