From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 13:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <20170603205331.GA2130@acm.fritz.box> <20170605162737.GA30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170605203753.GB30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170607191344.GB2430@acm.fritz.box> <20170608173400.GA2662@acm.fritz.box> <20170609194141.GA3410@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497039494 17861 195.159.176.226 (9 Jun 2017 20:18:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:18:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie , Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 09 22:18:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQMD-0004Gz-Lk for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 22:18:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56269 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQMH-0002Nm-AU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:18:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38701) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQM9-0002NT-RN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:18:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQM6-0007Ub-LB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:18:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:34760) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQM6-0007UX-Hc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQM6-0008Uu-52 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:18:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 20:18:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.149703944332612 (code B ref 23425); Fri, 09 Jun 2017 20:18:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2017 20:17:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQLT-0008Tw-3f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:17:23 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:31823) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQLR-0008Tj-Am for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:17:21 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v59KH6Pa014297 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:17:07 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v59KH6MA005128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:17:06 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v59KH2kG020620; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:17:05 GMT In-Reply-To: <20170609194141.GA3410@acm.fritz.box> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6767.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:133419 Archived-At: > This would render format strings containing these new specifiers > unusable on Older Emacsen. This would be worked around by providing > advice to message, to be applied by external packages using the new > specifiers. Just what did you have in mind for that? > There would be a significant amount of work amending format strings > which currently use ` and ' to use %` and %'. That's the problem for Emacs maintainers. But the problem for 3rd-party code is much bigger, because it often needs to support more than just the latest release. Clement pointed this out well. A user, including a Lisp user, should be able to write ' or ` and get what s?he writes. No behind-the-scenes application of makeup. No prettying-up at all - you write ' and you get '. Simple. Clear. Lovely. Useful. No need for high-heels. > I think the topic has been pretty thoroughly discussed. Are there any > objections remaining to me implementing this change and committing it to > master? Sorry, but I cannot be in favor of this proposal, as I understand it so far. But I'm even less in favor of what's already been done: making quote-translation the default behavior. That's both a tragedy and a travesty. I cannot imagine what the maintainers were thinking when they let this one get through. It's fine to provide easy ways to _allow_ for different kinds of quote translation. But quote chars (including but not limited to ` and ') should NOT be translated by default. By default, chars should be respected for what they are. Emacs should not substitute other chars just because someone working on Emacs development considered the substitute chars prettier or more modern. That's nuts. One overly zealous coder wreaked havoc, and we'll be wrestling with the result for a long time.