From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Katsumi Yamaoka Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38173: describe-variable: Also tell user *where* variable was changed Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:28:20 +0900 Organization: Emacsen advocacy group Message-ID: References: <87pnhxyjxp.8.fsf@jidanni.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="40416"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-cygwin) Cc: 38173@debbugs.gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 12 03:29:19 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iULvh-000AMa-CL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 03:29:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58692 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iULvf-0005Dn-Uy for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 21:29:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37885) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iULvT-0005DY-GW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 21:29:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iULvS-0003jY-CH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 21:29:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:47389) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iULvS-0003jS-8l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 21:29:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iULvR-0008Oi-RE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 21:29:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87pnhxyjxp.8.fsf@jidanni.org> Resent-From: Katsumi Yamaoka Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38173 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 38173-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38173.157352571932251 (code B ref 38173); Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:29:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 38173) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2019 02:28:39 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56210 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iULv4-0008O7-JT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 21:28:38 -0500 Original-Received: from cow.ash.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.222.41]:36603) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iULv2-0008Nw-5B for 38173@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 21:28:37 -0500 X-Sender-Id: tih5qno0ow|x-authuser|yamaoka@hampton.hostforweb.net Original-Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4368C6A1CBC; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:28:32 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from hampton.hostforweb.net (100-96-92-150.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.92.150]) (Authenticated sender: tih5qno0ow) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 74F1C6A1E1E; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:28:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: tih5qno0ow|x-authuser|yamaoka@hampton.hostforweb.net Original-Received: from hampton.hostforweb.net ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [172.245.115.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:28:32 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: tih5qno0ow|x-authuser|yamaoka@hampton.hostforweb.net X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: tih5qno0ow X-Shade-Spill: 7f31a52f2579797a_1573525711913_1452323204 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1573525711913:3298293844 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1573525711913 Original-Received: from s70.gtokyofl21.vectant.ne.jp ([202.215.75.70]:60000 helo=localhost) by hampton.hostforweb.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1iULup-00F7Bf-1j; Mon, 11 Nov 2019 20:28:24 -0600 X-Face: #kKnN,xUnmKia.'[pp`; Omh}odZK)?7wQSl"4o04=EixTF+V[""w~iNbM9ZL+.b*_CxUmFk B#Fu[*?MZZH@IkN:!"\w%I_zt>[$nm7nQosZ<3eu; B:$Q_:p!',P.c0-_Cy[dz4oIpw0ESA^D*1Lw= L&i*6&( Cancel-Lock: sha1:SoKQXJoFsNkRL9iXXToi2lDgiqI= X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-AuthUser: yamaoka@hampton.hostforweb.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:171447 Archived-At: On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:14:58 +0800, =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobso= n wrote: > ^H v w3m-command > w3m-command is a variable defined in =E2=80=98w3m.el=E2=80=99. > Its value is "/usr/bin/w3m" > Original value was nil Please read the doc string for the reason why it is changed. > User thinks: > Hmmm, it was changed I see. > Where did the change happen? > Did it get changed in w3m.el? But that's where it was first defined. So > it wouldn't have happened there. w3m.el does it. I don't know why the original author designed it so to be changed from the default nil to a reasonable value instead of making it default to it. Anyway it will be changed if and only if it was nil initially; you can set it as you like. > He looks in .emacs . Wait, he doesn't even have a .emacs. > He gives up. > So you only tell him half the story. > Either record at least the last place a variable was changed. > Or don't tell him it was changed. > emacs-version "26.3" . > Yes, if he changed in by hand in his *scratch* buffer etc., even say that= too. I think it is very useful for debugging if I can see what changed it and when it was changed, though I also think it would cost.