From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Connors Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bellinstead Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:32:38 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: Tim Connors , 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1226935490 22003 80.91.229.12 (17 Nov 2008 15:24:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:24:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com, 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: Jason Spiro Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 17 16:25:52 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1L25yx-00068h-0Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:25:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32830 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L25xo-0004Ak-I2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:24:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L1ysC-0004I5-Sn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:50:17 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L1ysB-0004HV-V3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:50:16 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40490 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L1ysB-0004HQ-Q8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:50:15 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:47630) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1L1ys9-0006gY-It for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:50:15 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mAH7o8vQ030344; Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:50:09 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id mAH7e5Rp027463; Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:40:05 -0800 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Tim Connors Original-Sender: tconnors@rather.puzzling.org Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:40:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 1305 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1305.122690717025996 (code B ref 1305); Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:40:05 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 17 Nov 2008 07:32:50 +0000 Original-Received: from ipmail01.adl6.internode.on.net (ipmail01.adl6.internode.on.net [203.16.214.146]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mAH7Wk5U025983 for <1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:32:48 -0800 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhIFAAusIEl5LJID/2dsb2JhbACBbIpVtmuKNYJ5 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,617,1220193000"; d="scan'208";a="232679560" Original-Received: from ppp121-44-146-3.lns10.syd7.internode.on.net (HELO dirac.rather.puzzling.org) ([121.44.146.3]) by ipmail01.adl6.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 17 Nov 2008 18:02:39 +1030 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by dirac.rather.puzzling.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L1yb9-0005ge-03; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:32:39 +1100 User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:50:16 -0500 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:24:29 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:22445 Archived-At: "Jason Spiro" wrote: > 2008/11/10 Richard M. Stallman wrote: >> For changes like this, you should poll the users, with a poll >> announced at least on info-gnu-emacs and help-gnu-emacs. >> >> To get the most useful information in return, it is important to ask >> them to state the reasons for their preference, rather than simply to >> "vote". > > We should poll for which change? Surely removing beeping from the > trivial things like: > > * quit (C-g), and > * moving the point off the end of the buffer, and > * failing isearches > > should not require a poll. See, I very much disagree that at least one of these is a "trivial" use, which demonstrates that deciding not to ask for a poll because *you* think something is obviously the case is a flawed proposition. For the first year of the life of this laptop, the sound driver didn't output beeps at all, which made editing in emacs very much more painful (the latest ALSA release restores beeps for this chipset, yay). I find visible-bell *way* too distracting, so use beeps (I can turn it down and control its pitch, but I can't make reverse video any less of a shock to the eyesight). And I've lost count of the number of times I've gone more than once around a buffer doing an isearch, because I failed to hear the non-existant beep telling me I had already gone around once. A simple visual notification in the status area is not enough, because almost by definition the entire screen is changing every isearch anyway, so a few extra words saying "failing i-search" doesn't get noticed. -- TimC cat /kat/ n. A furry keyboard cover