From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37774: 27.0.50; new :extend attribute broke visuals of all themes and other packages Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:28:50 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83bluhf7nz.fsf@gnu.org> <20191016111004.oialbyleokafpccz@Ergus> <87k194fvn7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871rvceeqp.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83tv88cyic.fsf@gnu.org> <83pniwcvon.fsf@gnu.org> <87pniw30td.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <4dc05091-53db-bff9-4623-0aedd9c2907f@gmx.at> <6f01b03d-7be3-71cc-ff97-c1a4f7b3c213@yandex.ru> <83tv879vy0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc27f9f-e701-afb8-c6f1-408f471187c7@yandex.ru> <83imon9tg3.fsf@gnu.org> <5db11c91-a216-40f6-f4c2-7b10c73532cc@yandex.ru> <83h8424ojp.fsf@gnu.org> <9fbdd8e8-4f6a-1aba-6509-d2699c82373b@yandex.ru> <83k18vzd1j.fsf@gnu.org> <3919a409-1a2b-8da6-a1d0-f9f6def09dfe@yandex.ru> <831rv3z6cn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="112459"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 Cc: 37774@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 24 00:15:57 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iNOv6-000T7U-OT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 00:15:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50092 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iNOv5-0000Ca-GE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 18:15:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38316) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iNNGg-0006aN-Jf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:30:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iNNGe-0007K1-KI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:30:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:54490) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iNNGd-0007I4-3V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:30:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iNNGc-0005pj-TX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:30:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 20:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37774 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 37774-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37774.157186254322330 (code B ref 37774); Wed, 23 Oct 2019 20:30:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2019 20:29:03 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35078 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iNNFf-0005o5-GT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:29:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com ([209.85.128.41]:34074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iNNFd-0005nU-Bm for 37774@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:29:01 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id v3so474690wmh.1 for <37774@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:29:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=N6SqXYGmHRQKi06F4ASXVkeUiGrRzhY3L50uliIsTOs=; b=auO/bqgdK+LBIAIqo+z2uvGHm4qi3MoF2zG7UA/CeWlYYEXdgioY9pn0HVH0Mf22aI GeNaHM2jGZyBRSoFsut0cPOAO273hFm8nAhpU8CeQbt3AX7TkiMjRx9N056q6EWoZ7j3 MaQFldjUx9UclfmQCLiLJutqoAb2nOHUdF7JjpTTin0Inw5ZzodLwEIbqTNADs7XjisQ cR9vkZN4TFNMn8CXe8klym0L64n4i2MI0ciyDqNgSifXjmJ0iZbOZ4/5+amm6tedvutI qa19ukFINcnSmtW4h2L52/vnu9hzegTXEzRpDn8+4sewpEKPuJAj3DbVfZu86wzCMYjz HyzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=N6SqXYGmHRQKi06F4ASXVkeUiGrRzhY3L50uliIsTOs=; b=FX1MoSWleOjZfSBKA59L2G5d57kP4YAFmxM4dFi7i5WdqxV+6Fev6JXCZVJQpSVUjh xVrmSEXAUs3jaBsD1HjOq3cJSZPDbq93sVXspTebl/pOHHbC1a1u6CiQ1QbhUTjMcivl dv63mv437yEEZEwDAwLChO1AninQKWe588eTTFL3h+LeDZXYaZN81rl0ysrskFppn9b8 Xr6kl5B4/K02TyODbNfLTZHLelW4ngDtqtDeb2fAsljrFXkXC+sFGT1MbZSuaTGaLh2E 99o3n8aI2XtzBlyM3NyOXG4VFmQiVDlzZJ4SimUCw2Vw1NQmKI4LSBe2e0QnuFvM+rN/ loRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWLGNgXusEuVTqfM1GRJcEt81IeyUn8k8TFtYJdVWG0bAU6/1Dq U+1R4HzM3QkPUQNTlSw9NdknEQ8lR/s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyIwmFrIkIc+jnHmMaJfhYvoM2hqEF3s8n6Lu9U/oLQr5U444k5ik0iiTvrAzbPelgnuypa1Q== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2407:: with SMTP id k7mr1440494wmk.99.1571862534917; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.5] ([212.50.117.215]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 26sm248586wmf.20.2019.10.23.13.28.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:28:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831rv3z6cn.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:170102 Archived-At: On 23.10.2019 21:04, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> AFAIU, that's a list of faces one particular user decided to customize >>> to have them extended. It's a far cry from the list of faces that >>> actually need to be extended, lest some important functionality will >>> suffer. IOW, we need some rationale for each face, so that we could >>> consider that and decide whether or not to extend each one by default. >> >> Magit's maintainer will decide for each face, sure. > > I don't mind if package maintainers want to make that decision by > themselves, but if that is the case, I don't think there's anything > left to do for this bug report? I though some action will be required > from us, that's why I asked all those questions. We should define and document a "migration path", e.g. say what a package author should do if they have a face which needs to be extended, preferably without breaking compatibility with Emacs 26. >> But I don't really see much a difference between having 2 and 20 faces >> that will need to be updated, if it's within one package. > > It's a difference between a small number and a very large number. > Theoretically, someone could argue that a change that requires to > modify lots of faces shouldn't be so unconditional, or shouldn't be > the default, or should have a "fire escape", or something to that > effect. But if people don't mind changing their faces, then such > fears have no basis, and we are good with what we have. A "fire escape" would depend on a user's config, right? I don't like the sound of that approach, personally. >> Even if it's just 2, do we have a recommended way to write their >> definitions in third-party packages in a way that's compatible with >> Emacs 26? > > The best way is to inherit from some suitable parent face, I think. A lot of face don't inherit from anything on purpose. Anyway, I've pinged Magit's maintainer, let's see what he says. >>> If too many faces in unbundled packages indeed need to change in that >>> way, we should consider additional measures. That's why we need good >>> reasons for extending each face, not just "because they were before" >>> or because people were used to see them extended. >> >> Those are not the worst reasons, though. > > Not sure I understand in what sens did you use "the worst" here. "People were used to ..." is basically 99% of the arguments that were given in all past discussions for not changing defaults to be more "modern" or whatever. And there's some merit to that.