* bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent
@ 2014-02-15 16:07 ` raman
2014-02-15 22:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-02-17 3:16 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: raman @ 2014-02-15 16:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 16763
This has been bothering me for a while when writing lisp code --
started happening roughly a few months ago.
I always hit C-j for newline, and a couple of months ago, this
stopped indenting -- by default C-j runs
control j runs the command electric-indent-just-newline
when electric-indent-mode is on.
The documentation for electric-mode indicates that indentation
will be invoked when you type any of the chars in
electric-indent-chars -- and that variable is set to a list
containing ?\n which is ascii 10; yet, C-j invokes a command
that explicitly only inserts a newline? (feeling very confused )
In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.2 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.16.1)
of 2014-02-01 on labrador
Repository revision: %N
System Description: Ubuntu 9.04
Configured using:
`configure --prefix=/usr/local'
Important settings:
value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
Major mode: Emacs-Lisp
Minor modes in effect:
recentf-mode: t
csv-field-index-mode: t
gpm-mouse-mode: t
global-semantic-idle-summary-mode: t
global-semanticdb-minor-mode: t
semantic-mode: t
savehist-mode: t
ido-everywhere: t
display-time-mode: t
auto-insert-mode: t
jabber-activity-mode: t
jabber-mode-line-mode: t
erc-list-mode: t
erc-menu-mode: t
erc-autojoin-mode: t
erc-ring-mode: t
erc-networks-mode: t
erc-pcomplete-mode: t
erc-track-mode: t
erc-match-mode: t
erc-button-mode: t
erc-fill-mode: t
erc-stamp-mode: t
erc-netsplit-mode: t
erc-irccontrols-mode: t
erc-noncommands-mode: t
erc-move-to-prompt-mode: t
erc-readonly-mode: t
dynamic-completion-mode: t
dired-omit-mode: t
desktop-save-mode: t
shell-dirtrack-mode: t
global-voice-lock-mode: t
voice-lock-mode: t
tooltip-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
buffer-read-only: t
auto-fill-function: do-auto-fill
transient-mark-mode: t
Recent input:
C-x C-s C-h c C-j C-e M C-x C-s ESC [ [ D C-x @ h s
c d RET c d SPC e m TAB l i TAB e m TAB RET s v n SPC
c i SPC - m SPC " " ; SPC m a k e RET C-h V e l e c
TAB i n d TAB RET C-h f e l e c t r i TAB i n d TAB
m TAB RET ESC m ESC [ [ D C-h G e l e c t r i TAB SPC
i TAB DEL TAB ESC DEL ESC DEL C-g C-h ESC f e l e c
t r i TAB i n d TAB m TAB RET ESC < C-e m C-x h C-s
d e f c u s ESC < C-h ESC v e l e c t r i TAB i n d
TAB m TAB RET ESC m C-e m C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n
ESC m C-p C-n C-n C-h c C-j C-h v e l e c t r i c SPC
i n d TAB c h TAB RET ESC m C-n C-n C-n C-n ESC C-e
ESC C-j e l e c t r i TAB i n d TAB c h TAB ESC DEL
C-g C-e h C-h ESC v e l e c t r i TAB i n d TAB c h
TAB RET ESC m C-e e ESC [ D ESC [ D ESC [ D ESC [ C
ESC [ C C-x C-e C-e a C-n C-h ESC k C-j ESC m C-n C-n
C-x m ESC [ [ D n ESC x r e p o r t SPC e m a TAB b
TAB RET
Recent messages:
uncompressing electric.el.gz...done
Note: file is write protected
Marked buffer containing 393 lines
control j runs the command electric-indent-just-newline
Quit
10 (#o12, #xa, ?\C-j)
Composing a message
Save `mail to _' as draft in folder `postponed'? (y or n) n
`mail to _ on ""' is gone forever!
Load-path shadows:
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/company-20131101.302/.dir-locals hides /home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/js2-mode-20131119.116/.dir-locals
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/company-20131101.302/.dir-locals hides /home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/kill-ring-search-20110605.1744/.dir-locals
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/google-this-20131031.1015/noflet hides /home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/noflet-20130901.1722/noflet
/home/raman/emacs/lisp/site-lisp/gm/g-utils hides /home/raman/emacs/lisp/emacspeak/lisp/g-client/g-utils
/home/raman/emacs/lisp/site-lisp/vm/lisp/tapestry hides /home/raman/emacs/lisp/emacspeak/lisp/tapestry
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/apt-utils-20130824.1200/apt-utils hides /home/raman/emacs/lisp/site-lisp/apt-utils
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/fold-dwim-20120926.1236/fold-dwim hides /home/raman/emacs/lisp/site-lisp/fold-dwim
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/xml-rpc-20130423.1656/xml-rpc hides /home/raman/emacs/lisp/site-lisp/xml-rpc
/home/raman/emacs/lisp/emacspeak/lisp/tetris hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.3.50/lisp/play/tetris
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/company-20131101.302/.dir-locals hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.3.50/lisp/gnus/.dir-locals
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/emms-20131016.1232/tq hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.3.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/tq
/home/raman/.emacs.d/elpa/tabulated-list-20120406.2251/tabulated-list hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.3.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/tabulated-list
Features:
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jabber-truncate jabber-time jabber-autoaway jabber-vcard-avatars
jabber-chatstates jabber-events jabber-vcard jabber-avatar
jabber-activity jabber-watch jabber-modeline jabber-ahc-presence
jabber-ahc jabber-version jabber-ourversion
jabber-muc-nick-completion hippie-exp jabber-browse jabber-search
jabber-register jabber-roster jabber-private jabber-presence
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jabber-alert jabber-iq jabber-core jabber-console
emacspeak-sgml-mode sgml-mode ewoc jabber-keymap jabber-sasl sasl
sasl-anonymous sasl-login sasl-plain fsm jabber-logon jabber-conn
srv dns starttls gnutls jabber-xml jabber-menu jabber-util
jabber-autoloads erc-list erc-menu erc-join erc-ring erc-networks
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erc-netsplit emacspeak-erc erc-goodies erc erc-backend erc-compat
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x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent
2014-02-15 16:07 ` bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent raman
@ 2014-02-15 22:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-02-17 3:16 ` Stefan Monnier
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alan Mackenzie @ 2014-02-15 22:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gnu-emacs-bug
Hi, Drew.
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
>> This has been bothering me for a while when writing lisp code --
>> started happening roughly a few months ago.
> Yup.
>> I always hit C-j for newline, and a couple of months ago, this
>> stopped indenting -- by default C-j runs control j runs the
>> command electric-indent-just-newline when electric-indent-mode
>> is on.
>>
>> The documentation for electric-mode indicates that indentation
>> will be invoked when you type any of the chars in
>> electric-indent-chars -- and that variable is set to a list
>> containing ?\n which is ascii 10; yet, C-j invokes a command
>> that explicitly only inserts a newline? (feeling very confused)
> It is not yet reflected in NEWS or the manuals, but `C-j' and
> `RET' have been effectively swapped: `RET' now indents and `C-j'
> does not indent.
No, it's a lot worse than that. What you say only applies when
electric-indent-mode is active (which is currently is, by default).
If you enable e-i-mode in a single buffer using
electric-indent-local-mode, then that binding reversal will apply in all
buffers. (That's assuming that function works, which I strongly suspect
isn't the case.) If you then disable e-i-m, whether the bindings stay
swapped depends on how you do the disabling.
If you advise `newline-and-indent', the results will be unexpected and
suboptimal when e-i-mode is enabled.
> The new behavior was apparently adopted to make Emacs correspond
> better with what newbie users expect, based on their experience
> with other editors and IDEs.
Sort of. I suspect the newbie users who don't like e-i-mode would also
like to have these bindings reversed. Or maybe not. Who can say?
> You are not alone in "feeling very confused". Hopefully, the
> NEWS entry covering this, and perhaps the manuals, will explain
> the best and simplest way to restore the previous, longstanding
> behavior for those who might prefer it. Otherwise, you can
> just retrain your fingers. ;-)
I'm not confused about this issue. Just very, very unhappy.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent
2014-02-15 16:07 ` bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent raman
2014-02-15 22:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
@ 2014-02-17 3:16 ` Stefan Monnier
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2014-02-17 3:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: raman; +Cc: 16763
> The documentation for electric-mode indicates that indentation
> will be invoked when you type any of the chars in
> electric-indent-chars
Actually, it's when you self-insert-command a char in electric-indent-chars.
Both C-j and RET call self-insert-command indirectly after fiddling to
force them both to insert ?\n.
In any case, if you prefer the old behavior, just disable
electric-indent-mode.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent
[not found] <<87fvnkbbqx.fsf@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <mailman.15193.1392492502.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2014-02-15 19:27 ` Drew Adams
2014-02-15 19:50 ` Andreas Röhler
2014-02-15 21:48 ` T. V. Raman
1 sibling, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2014-02-15 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: raman, 16763
> This has been bothering me for a while when writing lisp code --
> started happening roughly a few months ago.
Yup.
> I always hit C-j for newline, and a couple of months ago, this
> stopped indenting -- by default C-j runs control j runs the
> command electric-indent-just-newline when electric-indent-mode
> is on.
>
> The documentation for electric-mode indicates that indentation
> will be invoked when you type any of the chars in
> electric-indent-chars -- and that variable is set to a list
> containing ?\n which is ascii 10; yet, C-j invokes a command
> that explicitly only inserts a newline? (feeling very confused)
It is not yet reflected in NEWS or the manuals, but `C-j' and
`RET' have been effectively swapped: `RET' now indents and `C-j'
does not indent.
The new behavior was apparently adopted to make Emacs correspond
better with what newbie users expect, based on their experience
with other editors and IDEs.
You are not alone in "feeling very confused". Hopefully, the
NEWS entry covering this, and perhaps the manuals, will explain
the best and simplest way to restore the previous, longstanding
behavior for those who might prefer it. Otherwise, you can
just retrain your fingers. ;-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent
2014-02-15 19:27 ` Drew Adams
@ 2014-02-15 19:50 ` Andreas Röhler
2014-02-15 21:48 ` T. V. Raman
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Röhler @ 2014-02-15 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 16763
Am 15.02.2014 20:27, schrieb Drew Adams:
>> This has been bothering me for a while when writing lisp code --
>> started happening roughly a few months ago.
>
> Yup.
>
>> I always hit C-j for newline, and a couple of months ago, this
>> stopped indenting -- by default C-j runs control j runs the
>> command electric-indent-just-newline when electric-indent-mode
>> is on.
>>
>> The documentation for electric-mode indicates that indentation
>> will be invoked when you type any of the chars in
>> electric-indent-chars -- and that variable is set to a list
>> containing ?\n which is ascii 10; yet, C-j invokes a command
>> that explicitly only inserts a newline? (feeling very confused)
>
> It is not yet reflected in NEWS or the manuals, but `C-j' and
> `RET' have been effectively swapped: `RET' now indents and `C-j'
> does not indent.
>
> The new behavior was apparently adopted to make Emacs correspond
> better with what newbie users expect, based on their experience
> with other editors and IDEs.
>
> You are not alone in "feeling very confused". Hopefully, the
> NEWS entry covering this, and perhaps the manuals, will explain
> the best and simplest way to restore the previous, longstanding
> behavior for those who might prefer it. Otherwise, you can
> just retrain your fingers. ;-)
>
>
>
>
Seems a wise change for the majority of beginners nonetheless.
In most cases you will indent when writing lines of code.
Rather seldom column 0 is needed,.
So I'm ready to learn... :-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent
2014-02-15 19:27 ` Drew Adams
2014-02-15 19:50 ` Andreas Röhler
@ 2014-02-15 21:48 ` T. V. Raman
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: T. V. Raman @ 2014-02-15 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: drew.adams; +Cc: tv.raman.tv, 16763
The source code docs need to be fixed too
>>>>> "Drew" == Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> This has been bothering me for a while when writing lisp
>> code -- started happening roughly a few months ago.
Drew>
Drew> Yup.
Drew>
>> I always hit C-j for newline, and a couple of months ago,
>> this stopped indenting -- by default C-j runs control j
>> runs the command electric-indent-just-newline when
>> electric-indent-mode is on.
>>
>> The documentation for electric-mode indicates that
>> indentation will be invoked when you type any of the chars
>> in electric-indent-chars -- and that variable is set to a
>> list containing ?\n which is ascii 10; yet, C-j invokes a
>> command that explicitly only inserts a newline? (feeling
>> very confused)
Drew>
Drew> It is not yet reflected in NEWS or the manuals, but
Drew> `C-j' and `RET' have been effectively swapped: `RET'
Drew> now indents and `C-j' does not indent.
Drew>
Drew> The new behavior was apparently adopted to make Emacs
Drew> correspond better with what newbie users expect, based
Drew> on their experience with other editors and IDEs.
Drew>
Drew> You are not alone in "feeling very
Drew> confused". Hopefully, the NEWS entry covering this, and
Drew> perhaps the manuals, will explain the best and simplest
Drew> way to restore the previous, longstanding behavior for
Drew> those who might prefer it. Otherwise, you can just
Drew> retrain your fingers. ;-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-02-17 3:16 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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[not found] <<87fvnkbbqx.fsf@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <mailman.15193.1392492502.10748.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-02-15 16:07 ` bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent raman
2014-02-15 22:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-02-17 3:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-02-15 19:27 ` Drew Adams
2014-02-15 19:50 ` Andreas Röhler
2014-02-15 21:48 ` T. V. Raman
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