From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@gnu.org> <87tujf9m52.fsf@cnu407c2zx.nsn-intra.net> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@gnus.org> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@cs.ucla.edu> <871r6hn64r.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27859"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 Cc: "Michalis V." , 11912@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 25 20:00:10 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mIxC6-000763-Jz for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:00:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54864 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mIxC5-0007Fy-NG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:00:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57546) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mIxBy-0007FX-Df for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:00:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:36034) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mIxBy-0006rz-5i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:00:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIxBy-0002ZK-3u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:00:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11912 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 11912-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11912.16299143719803 (code B ref 11912); Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:00:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2021 17:59:31 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIxBT-0002Y3-BX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:59:31 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:55798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIxBS-0002Xm-3D for 11912@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:59:30 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBDB1600AF; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id iezIVljOxsTR; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF8D1600C2; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ZhjzT4m0Fo-Z; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 841801600AF; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <871r6hn64r.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:212668 Archived-At: On 8/25/21 3:57 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > on the command line, chmod is fine with following symlinks Yes, that's what POSIX requires. However, Dired is different from the=20 POSIX shell, because a Dired user sees the permissions on a symbolic=20 link while typing the command to the edit permissions, and the natural=20 assumption is that one is editing what one is seeing. This is even more=20 true of Wdired (Bug#50189); and it's also quite true for Dired. That is why G, O, T should also be fixed (see Bug#50191). The Dired=20 users sees the group, ownership, and timestamp of the symlink while=20 typing the "change the group" (or whatever) command, so the natural=20 assumption is that one is changing what one is seeing. This assumption is so hardwired that it is the original motivation for=20 the coding error that prompted Bug#11912.