From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#17146: 24.4.50; File save with incapable coding system precluded by strange error message Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 08:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87ha6fyw1e.fsf@nbtrap.com> <83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1396279951 30983 80.91.229.3 (31 Mar 2014 15:32:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:32:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 17146@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Nathan Trapuzzano Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 31 17:32:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeCF-0000MW-Lw for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:32:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49462 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeCF-0000oG-9M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:32:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59662) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeC3-0000Wd-Ov for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:32:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeBv-0002dA-2Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:32:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:56833) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeBv-0002d3-02 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:32:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeBu-0006GY-6g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17146 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 17146-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17146.139627986224001 (code B ref 17146); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 17146) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2014 15:31:02 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58014 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeAv-0006Ev-3m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:31:01 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27221) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WUeAs-0006Ek-1m for 17146@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:30:58 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s2VFUtU3018038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:30:56 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2VFUt4Y020060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:30:55 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s2VFUsUK018208; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:30:54 GMT In-Reply-To: <83lhvqcsb3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:87571 Archived-At: > This change is backward-incompatible, but is not in NEWS for some > reason. Needless to say, the canonical way of fixing the fallout is > not described in NEWS. Are functions that need Help mode supposed to > let-bind these hooks? If so, the patch below should fix the problem. > In any case, please document the change and the way to adapt to it in > NEWS. Please see bug #17109. FWIW, this regression really bothers me. This is not the way to make changes. It is fine to introduce and use new macros. And it is fine to deprecate old macros in favor of new macros or functions (which has not even been done here, AFAIK). What is not kosher is to change the behavior of an existing macro, so that it breaks code that uses that macro. This comes, perhaps, from thinking that the distributed Emacs code is the only Emacs-Lisp code, or is the only code that matters. And that comes, perhaps, from an overemphasis on self: core developer vs users/lusers. Such a way of thinking is completely counter to the spirit of Emacs. The core Emacs code that Emacs Dev distributes is only that: a core. The larger Emacs community (*users*) is not only explicity invited and encouraged to extend such code - that is practically the core principle of Emacs itself: user modification. Personally, I have lots of code, in different libraries, that uses `with-output-to-temp-buffer', and that needs to work across multiple Emacs versions. This incompatible change would considerably complicate such code - for no good reason. Even if I am the only one to use this macro (which I doubt), this is not a reasonable change, IMO. I really hope that someone DTRT here.